Part 1 Episode Notes

I got to sit down with the world's MOST GRAND Socialist, Doreen. Don't try this woman! If you're gonna come, come correct!

This was recorded at the end of 2020, and we were in the holiday spirit, sipping spirits (all day).

Hers is a fascinating story of growing up mixed race in Fiji, becoming a political activist as a civil servant and union member. Oh, and uh, her activism is what led to her being exiled from her native Fiji.

Also, I'm sure I'm not the only one who could listen to her lovely voice all day 😊

Part 2 Episode Notes

We're good and sauced in Part 2 😆

But we managed to verbalize the need for the left needing durable organizing capabilities, Feinstein needing to get the fuck on, and how she will (soon) be approaching community building with her particular knack for families.

(There will be a ridiculous and dramatic reenactment of her plying me with shots and champagne on IG @whatslefttodo haha)

Part 1 Transcript

Janelle Jolley  0:10  
Hello, and welcome to What's Left To Do. I'm your host Janelle. It is no coincidence that I felt compelled to release this guest's episode right after Valentine's Day, because I love this woman. If you had the pleasure of attending a canvas in San Francisco hosted at Doreen's house, you already know what it is. And by that, I mean, we were sipping champagne all day long during this marathon interview. Let's listen in on the life of the OG champagne socialist who fled her native Fiji. How do I introduce this week's esteemed guest?

Doreen  1:00  
Hey, I'm the Poly Queen. Polynesian Queen.

Janelle Jolley  1:01  
That's right. You got to be careful saying that, girl! So y'all...some of you might be familiar with the dirtbag Left. Uh-uh, that's not what we're doing here. I'm here to tell you about the luxurious Left. The progenitor of the grand canvas.

Doreen  1:22  

Janelle Jolley  1:22  
Would you like some crudite? Some freshed baked bread before you go out and spread the good word of Medicare for All? I got that.

Doreen  1:33  

Janelle Jolley  1:34  
Would you like a glass of wine? Maybe some champagne when you come back? Want to kick your feet up?

Doreen  1:39  

Janelle Jolley  1:40  
I have some salami, some cheese, a little bit of smoked salmon. I got that. This is the Queen Mother.

Doreen  1:48  

Janelle Jolley  1:48  
My Fijian mother who has me here taking shots of brown liquor and drinking-

Doreen  1:59  
There's no other way to do it!

Janelle Jolley  2:02  
Drinking champagne on a Saturday afternoon. None other than the grand-

Doreen  2:08  

Janelle Jolley  2:08  
The fancy-

Doreen  2:09  

Janelle Jolley  2:10  
She knows how to live.

Doreen  2:11  

Janelle Jolley  2:12  
Doreen. Say something to the people, Doreen.

Doreen  2:14  
Woo-hoo! Give me some a, woop-woop!

Janelle Jolley  2:18  
Oh my god,I miss you so much!

Doreen  2:20  
I know! We gotta do this more often. Don't have to record, right?

Janelle Jolley  2:26  
That's right. No, no, there'll be no mics.

Doreen  2:28  
No excuses. Next time. Right.

Janelle Jolley  2:29  
There were no mics the first four times.

Doreen  2:31  
I know, right? Oh, my god. Good times!

Janelle Jolley  2:35  
That's right. That's right.

Doreen  2:37  
Yeah, that's- yeah.

Janelle Jolley  2:38  
How are you?

Doreen  2:40  
Man, I think God is good. And you know what? I try to bless others too.  

Janelle Jolley  2:45  
You blessin' me right now with this Saint Germain and this champagne, miss madam!

Doreen  2:50  
I know, right? It's the ultimate, actually, with these- only strawberries were there. Next time.

Janelle Jolley  2:57  
Okay. Listen, I will hold you to that. She's gonna have them, too. Listen.  We about to be so reckless! But that's what we do.  

Doreen  3:07  

Janelle Jolley  3:09  
How has it been since we were last- I mean, but, as- to the extent that you care to share.

Doreen  3:15  
You know, to tell the truth, it was nailbiting because, you know, you had to trust. You had to go with the greater good, which is what I always believe in. The greater good, it's not about me having my way. It's the greater good, which was, you know, supporting Biden and Harris. And so...once I wrapped my mind around that-

Janelle Jolley  3:43  
Oh! Cuz we were talking about that back in March, or, February!

Doreen  3:46  
Yeah, it was really hard to wrap your mind around that.

Janelle Jolley  3:50  
Yes! Cuz it's why- if we're telling the truth- it's just me and you.

Doreen  3:53  

Janelle Jolley  3:54  
You my homegirl on the hill.

Doreen  3:55  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  3:56  
It's absurd to even consider.

Doreen  3:58  
Yeah, because it's like, what I stand for in my core-

Janelle Jolley  4:03  

Doreen  4:06  
Was nothing close to what Biden stands for.

Janelle Jolley  4:11  
Come on, tell the truth now!

Doreen  4:12  
And so, you know, I'm a Bernie girl all my life.

Janelle Jolley  4:16  
That's right.

Doreen  4:17  
And, you know, one thing I find about the United States, is they do not understand what socialism is. And I think that's the biggest downfall, is because they have made the word something to be scared of.

Janelle Jolley  4:36  
And you remember what you said when we were canvassing?

Doreen  4:39  

Janelle Jolley  4:40  
Oh, health care? You don't need it?

Doreen  4:43  

Janelle Jolley  4:44  
College? You don't need it?

Doreen  4:47  

Janelle Jolley  4:48  

Doreen  4:48  
Yeah. And so I think socialism has to be understood.

Janelle Jolley  4:57  
You're gonna help us understand it, but we have to start with how you understand it, and we're gonna go back to the beginning.

Doreen  5:02  
Yeah. Because I remember exactly where I was when Obama was, you know, President. It was announced. And I was in a club, and this dude turned around-

Janelle Jolley  5:15  
What you mean you was in a club, Doreen? Doreen, what are wee doing? Miss Ma'am!

Doreen  5:20  
Girl, what do you do in a club? You drink and you- I was at a club, back to the club. And this dude turns around and says, "You know, he'll turn this country into a socialist country!" And I go, "And what's wrong with that?"

Janelle Jolley  5:38  

Doreen  5:38  
He just about fell on the floor.

Janelle Jolley  5:42  
I bet he did!

Doreen  5:43  
And I said, "Do you even know what socialism is?" And I gave him a lesson on what socialism is.

Janelle Jolley  5:49  
While you was twerkin'.

Doreen  5:52  
And so I told him about, you know, free education, free health care- the basic necessities.

Janelle Jolley  5:58  

Doreen  5:59  
And that you help the people-

Janelle Jolley  6:00  

Doreen  6:01  
That are unable to make it right now?

Janelle Jolley  6:05  

Doreen  6:06  
Because after you lift them up, they will be able to contribute to society. And instead, you always look down at people that you want to help. I don't understand it.

Janelle Jolley  6:17  
Thank you.

Doreen  6:17  
I don't understand why you don't want to help people.

Janelle Jolley  6:21  
That's right.

Doreen  6:21  
Because when you give them self esteem, they become somebody.

Janelle Jolley  6:25  

Doreen  6:25  
And when they become somebody, then they reach out back to the other people-

Janelle Jolley  6:29  
That's it!

Doreen  6:30  
Because you know what? You know what it feels like.

Janelle Jolley  6:32  
That's right.

Doreen  6:32  
You know, what it feels like. I grew up in the islands, and our daily- 15 minutes before class starts was, "How can you give back to society?"

Janelle Jolley  6:43  
That was a part of your lesson?

Doreen  6:44  
That was part. Every 15 minutes. You sing devotion and then you work on, "How are you going to give back to society?"

Janelle Jolley  6:53  
Now tell them where you grew up.

Doreen  6:54  
I grew up in the Fiji Islands.

Janelle Jolley  6:56  

Doreen  6:57  
When you think about it, that means your world is very small. So you grow up thinking, because your parents make you think big-

Janelle Jolley  7:06  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  7:07  
And so you grow up thinking you have to expand.

Janelle Jolley  7:11  

Doreen  7:12  
You feel the need to expand because you're bigger than that island. And so when you're thinking about giving back, there is no limit on how you need to give back. So when you're thinking of giving back to society, you're not thinking just about your island, you're thinking about how as a person, as a human being, I'm gonna give back. So wherever you go to, that's the place you're going to give back to society.

Janelle Jolley  7:40  
Ah! I see.

Doreen  7:40  
And that's why I do what I do, because I feel like- you know, when I open my backyard for the Bernie Sanders'- I wanted to be able to give back.

Janelle Jolley  7:52  

Doreen  7:53  
Because what people don't understand, and I don't understand why they don't understand, we're fighting for you.

Janelle Jolley  8:00  
Ha! Say it again! Because some people miss that.  

Doreen  8:03  
You know, I am fighting for you. I'm not fighting for myself, because I earn enough.

Janelle Jolley  8:08  
Yes, that's right.

Doreen  8:09  
I earn enough. I'm fighting for you.

Janelle Jolley  8:11  
She got a popped collar, that's how you know she earned enough.

Doreen  8:13  

Janelle Jolley  8:13  
Miss thang up here with an ascot on and a popped collar. "I earn enough. But I'm not just worried about me." Uh-huh. I want you-

Doreen  8:22  

Janelle Jolley  8:23  
To be all right.

Doreen  8:24  
Yes! I want to stand up for you.

Janelle Jolley  8:25  
That's right.

Doreen  8:26  
And it's not because I want to show off. Or that I'm all that. It's not that at all.

Janelle Jolley  8:33  
I mean, but she is all that, though. Let's be clear about that. Uh-huh.

Doreen  8:36  
But it's about, "No, I'm helping you stand up with you because I don't see you standing up."

Janelle Jolley  8:44  
Yeah, yeah!  

Doreen  8:45  
So I want to stand up with you but, bloody hell! If I'm going to stand up for you, don't you think you should fucking stand up with me?

Janelle Jolley  8:53  
Ha! Listen- and not fight me!

Doreen  8:55  

Janelle Jolley  8:56  
I'm not trying to harm you!

Doreen  8:57  
Absolutely! Healthcare. Every human being deserves it.

Janelle Jolley  9:02  
That's it.

Doreen  9:03  

Janelle Jolley  9:04  

Doreen  9:04  
Every human being deserves it.

Janelle Jolley  9:06  
That's it. That's it.

Doreen  9:08  
Education so that you can have your shelter.

Janelle Jolley  9:11  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  9:12  
And your health care.

Janelle Jolley  9:13  
That's right. Make it plain, sister Gordon.

Doreen  9:16  
Those are the only things that we're fighting for, to start with basic human needs.

Janelle Jolley  9:22  
That's right.

Doreen  9:23  
And so when I'm standing here and fucking fighting for you? Stand with me.

Janelle Jolley  9:27  
That's right.

Doreen  9:27  
And don't stand against me.

Janelle Jolley  9:29  
Huh! That's it.

Doreen  9:29  
Even if you can't stand, don't stand against me.

Janelle Jolley  9:31  
Yeah, that's right.  

Doreen  9:32  
Just turn around and say thank you.

Janelle Jolley  9:34  
That's right. That's right.

Doreen  9:35  
Oh, man!

Janelle Jolley  9:36  
My word!

Doreen  9:37  
Pissing me off.  That will drive me to drink! Cheers!

Janelle Jolley  9:47  
Cheers, yes! When we was up in the grand palace that is your home, like every weekend for, like, two months.

Doreen  9:56  
Hey, loved it.

Janelle Jolley  9:57  
You were so- I think I- cuz I think when I...either when Alvin was letting me know that this was where I was assigned, or something, and I saw a picture of you, or something, you know, just so I knew who it was, I assumed you were Trinidadian, because you look like a lot of Trinidadian women that I grew up around. But you told me you're like, "No, no, I'm from Fiji." And then I was like, "Oh, okay." And then you went on to briefly say, and we didn't get a chance to talk about it because we busy trying to get everybody settled, but you said you were of Indian, Chinese, and something else, and something else ancestry.

Doreen  10:32  
Fijian, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  10:33  
How did everybody end up in Fiji?

Doreen  10:36  
Fiji is a melting pot, a huge melting pot. And my grandmother, she was native Fijian and she married a Chinese baker. He went from China to Fiji.

Janelle Jolley  10:57  
When and why?

Doreen  10:59  
Long time ago because China is, I think, oppressive.

Janelle Jolley  11:04  
Even back then?

Doreen  11:05  

Janelle Jolley  11:06  
Oh, okay, okay.

Doreen  11:07  
Even more so.

Janelle Jolley  11:08  
Hmm! Hmm, hmm.

Doreen  11:10  
Now it's a pretty picture, but probably still a little...

Janelle Jolley  11:14  
Probably still very oppressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  11:17  
Yeah, I think to escape the oppression he ended up in Fiji. He was a baker, he and my grandmother married. And then my mother was Chinese-Fijian. Only child. She married- my mother married my dad, whose parents were from India.

Janelle Jolley  11:40  
Ah! What part, do you know?

Doreen  11:42  

Janelle Jolley  11:43  
Oh, okay. They had been in Fiji for a while?

Doreen  11:45  
They had come to Fiji as indentured slaves to work on the sugarcane.

Janelle Jolley  11:50  
Ah-ha, ah-ha.

Doreen  11:52  
And fortunately, in Fiji, you could make money even though you were an indentured slave because you would be working and earning.

Janelle Jolley  11:59  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  12:00  
And so they were- my dad's parents were, I think, wealthy. I know they were wealthy. But they disowned my father because my father married my mother.

Janelle Jolley  12:15  

Doreen  12:16  
And so, because they disowned him, he dropped his last name because he disowned them back.

Janelle Jolley  12:21  

Doreen  12:22  
My parents, I tell you, when we look back, they were the most progressive people in my life.

Janelle Jolley  12:26  
Why do you say that?

Doreen  12:27  
Because at a time when, people would have been afraid to be disowned and walk away from wealth?

Janelle Jolley  12:37  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  12:38  

Janelle Jolley  12:39  

Doreen  12:39  
He chose my mother.

Janelle Jolley  12:41  
Listen, that's love!

Doreen  12:42  

Janelle Jolley  12:43  
That's- ooh! That's love. That's what I want.

Doreen  12:46  
And when I mean walked away from wealth, they owned bus companies, and theaters, and, you know. Like, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  12:52  
When he said, "Okay. This is who I want to be with. And if you can't accept it-" Hmm.  

Doreen  12:56  
And so as a result, we never met a lot of my father's side of the family?

Janelle Jolley  13:02  
Huh. Still? Like, growing up?

Doreen  13:04  
Growing up, yeah. So maybe just two or three of his sisters?

Janelle Jolley  13:08  
Wow. He was one of how many?

Doreen  13:10  
I don't know.

Janelle Jolley  13:11  
Oh, cuz you just-

Doreen  13:12  
No, I just can't remember.

Janelle Jolley  13:14  
Oh, okay.  

Doreen  13:14  
I was too small. I was just, I was- I wasn't even born at the time, kind of thing.

Janelle Jolley  13:19  
Oh, okay.

Doreen  13:20  
I'm the youngest of seven. So it was difficult, like any interracial marriage.

Janelle Jolley  13:27  

Doreen  13:28  
You were considered half caste.

Janelle Jolley  13:32  
In Fiji?

Doreen  13:33  

Janelle Jolley  13:34  
Because you were Brown?

Doreen  13:35  
No, because you were mixed race.  

Janelle Jolley  13:38  
Ah. Who got- who was- what was preferred? Was it just quote pure Fijian, or pure Chinese, or-

Doreen  13:46  
Anything pure.

Janelle Jolley  13:47  
Okay, I see. I see. No interracial.

Doreen  13:49  
No interracial. So this is how my parents raised me when there is discrimination, and there was discrimination.

Janelle Jolley  13:56  

Doreen  13:57  
So you weren't Chinese. You weren't Chinese enought. You weren't Indian because you weren't Indian enough. And you weren't Fijian because you weren't Fijian enough.

Janelle Jolley  14:07  

Doreen  14:08  
So we were kinda known as the Narayan and so wherever we went people recognized us. And so we had to live up to the name.

Janelle Jolley  14:18  
So it's because- I think I understand what you're saying because it sounds- that's not... I always refer to you as my Fijian mother because you remind me so much of my mother, but I think what you mean by that is, people understood who your family was. Like, your family kind of had a name, so you had to conduct yourself accordingly out of a, like, "Don't go out embarrassing us."

Doreen  14:38  

Janelle Jolley  14:38  
"You can't do that. You are a Narayan."

Doreen  14:40  
Broken legs. Your legs will be broken-

Janelle Jolley  14:44  
That's right.

Doreen  14:44  
Just before you step in the door.

Janelle Jolley  14:46  
That's right. "So don't have somebody coming to me talking crazy about what you was doing in the street."

Doreen  14:51  
So you just know your legs will be broken. So you live your life knowing you don't want broken legs.

Janelle Jolley  15:00  
That's right. That's right.

Doreen  15:01  
And we didn't let them down.

Janelle Jolley  15:04  
No. You couldn't.  

Doreen  15:05  
You couldn't.

Janelle Jolley  15:05  
Yeah, you could not. That's not an option.

Doreen  15:08  
Because I did once. I-

Janelle Jolley  15:09  
Hey! Come on, she was reckless. She liked to twerk. That started in the islands. C'mon now, tell the truth. She like Rick Ross. My girl got a little bit of a hood rat spirit.

Doreen  15:28  
And that's why we had to live up to our name because we had swagger. We would have assembly sometimes in the afternoon.

Janelle Jolley  15:34  

Doreen  15:35  
And it would be like a culture assembly. So you'd all gather and the Fijians would go and have their Meke, their dance practice. And the Indians would go and have their dance practice.

Janelle Jolley  15:50  
They just- they separated, even in school children?

Doreen  15:53  
Yeah, because you have a choice.

Janelle Jolley  15:55  
Ah, okay, okay.  

Doreen  15:56  
You have a choice. Because you're gonna have to, like, a performance? So it's a culture, they have- it called, the class is called culture. So you would go and practice your dance.

Janelle Jolley  16:07  
Whatever- with whatever culture you identify with, or you want to perform?

Doreen  16:10  
Yeah. And so when then base, whatever day it was, like a performance day, and parents would come. Then, you know, then you would perform whatever you learned in your culture.

Janelle Jolley  16:23  
Sure. Sure.

Doreen  16:24  
So it was easy for me to skip, because I didn't...sometimes I chose not to identify with a culture, although they had a Polynesian one. And I could have gone to that.

Janelle Jolley  16:36  
And Polynesian means a blend of everything?

Doreen  16:38  
The islanders. Like, the route humans and the...we would have students from Nuie...

Janelle Jolley  16:49  
What's that?

Doreen  16:50  

Janelle Jolley  16:51  
Oh, okay. Those are islands.  

Doreen  16:52  
Nuie, Samoa. Nuie is an island, yeah. Samoa, Tonga. So you'd have students that would come to- because Fiji was the hub.

Janelle Jolley  17:00  
Ah, ah, ah.

Doreen  17:02  
Like, the Pacific hub.

Janelle Jolley  17:03  
It's the hub of the archipelago?

Doreen  17:04  

Janelle Jolley  17:04  
Okay, okay.

Doreen  17:05  
It's the Pacific hub.

Janelle Jolley  17:07  

Doreen  17:08  
So culture comes around one afternoon and I decide to leave the school yard. And me and a few- three other friends- decide to go to the movies. And that's, like, the worst thing you can do, right?

Janelle Jolley  17:26  

Doreen  17:27  

Janelle Jolley  17:27  
Go to the movie?

Doreen  17:28  

Janelle Jolley  17:29  
Oh, okay. Okay.  

Doreen  17:31  
In the islands.

Janelle Jolley  17:32  
Okay, okay. Different place.

Doreen  17:33  
So we go to the movie and then- the worst thing about being multiracial is at the assembly, you are missed.

Janelle Jolley  17:45  
Like, they know.

Doreen  17:46  
Yeah, Mm hmm.

Janelle Jolley  17:47  
Li'l Indian-Chinese-Fijian Doreen ain't here.

Doreen  17:51  
And then with the name.

Janelle Jolley  17:53  
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  17:54  
Cuz I'm the youngest of seven and all seven went there to school.

Janelle Jolley  17:58  
The youngest Narayan not here!

Doreen  18:00  

Janelle Jolley  18:00  
Somebody ring a bell!

Doreen  18:03  
That right. And then because my family had this reputation that nobody, you know, tainted. And here I was the youngest of the bunch. Here I was breaking the rule. what's your final grade over here? Twelve? Year twelve?

Janelle Jolley  18:27  
Yes, yes, yes.

Doreen  18:27  
Okay. So I was in year five when I was breaking this rule.

Janelle Jolley  18:31  
So you 10.

Doreen  18:32  
I was like 11.

Janelle Jolley  18:34  
Ten or 12, or something?

Doreen  18:36  
Twelve- if 12 is after you graduate, and I was 11th grade.

Janelle Jolley  18:42  
Okay, so you were just about to graduate. So you were probably, like, 17. Sixteen or 17.  

Doreen  18:46  
Probably 16/17.

Janelle Jolley  18:49  

Doreen  18:49  
Sixteen, because I graduated 17. I was, you know, it was like a cusp of whatever . So I was- so I decided to skip and I got caught.

Janelle Jolley  19:03  
Ooh! By who?

Doreen  19:04  
My principal, vice principal, they had a discussion.

Janelle Jolley  19:08  
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  19:09  
They had a discussion, I got called into the office and said I was- because they were worried, because they knew who I was.

Janelle Jolley  19:17  

Doreen  19:19  
That I needed to bring my parents in.

Janelle Jolley  19:21  

Doreen  19:22  
Broken legs.

Janelle Jolley  19:23  
Ah! That's right. That's what parents mean, broken legs for you!

Doreen  19:27  
Mm-hmm, broken legs. I was shivering-

Janelle Jolley  19:32  

Doreen  19:32  
In my skin.

Janelle Jolley  19:33  
She was shook!

Doreen  19:35  
My mother was in Sydney, visiting. And my dad was working, of course. He had a trucking business. I knew he was gonna break my legs.

Janelle Jolley  19:45  

Doreen  19:48  
So for a week, I went and visited my cousin every day and stayed with her. I want to walk, girl. I want to twerk.

Janelle Jolley  19:55  
I want to walk! I want to twerk! Woo! You so damn wild. Go ahead, mm-hmm.

Doreen  20:04  
So I visit my cousin, as if I was going to school, and then I'd go home after school and-

Janelle Jolley  20:10  
Like nothing happened?

Doreen  20:11  
Yeah. And then after a week I had to tell somebody, so I told my brother, who I really kind of...I worship. I mean, I thought he was the coolest brother. I mean I have great brothers, but I wanted to follow the footsteps of my one particular brother Richard, my eldest brother. And so I had to ask him to represent mum or dad, because I knew he couldn't break my legs. So after a week, I had to tell him, I said, "Richie, I can't go back to school unless mommy or daddy goes and-"

Janelle Jolley  20:52  
"And they can't go cuz I need to walk."

Doreen  20:55  
He knew, girl. I didn't even have to say it. He knew they were gonna break my legs, that he needed to show up and pretend that daddy couldn't. Daddy was too busy to go. And Mom was out of the country. So- he's such a beautiful brother, oh, my god. I'll tell you more- a little more about him-

Janelle Jolley  21:15  
Yes, yes, yes!  

Doreen  21:17  
And so he said- he was disappointed, I could see it in his eyes.

Janelle Jolley  21:24  
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  21:25  
He was so disappointed. And so, but he did go. And when he came back, after the conversation, we'd like- you know, the meeting with the principal and the vice principal. He said, "Dodo," because they called me Dodo. He says, "You know, our family." And I said, "Yes." He said, "You can't do this."

Janelle Jolley  21:53  
That's right.

Doreen  21:53  
"You can't do this, because it's not who we are."

Janelle Jolley  21:58  
Mmm! We the Narayans.

Doreen  22:00  

Janelle Jolley  22:01  
Act accordingly.

Doreen  22:02  
"You can't do this, because this is not who we are." And if they ever voted me head girl, which is like, you know...

Janelle Jolley  22:12  
Like, SGA President or something?

Doreen  22:13  
Yeah. It's going to really look bad.

Janelle Jolley  22:16  

Doreen  22:16  
"And so I just want you to know that this has got to stop."

Janelle Jolley  22:22  
Yeah. "I'm gonna do this for you this one time."

Doreen  22:25  

Janelle Jolley  22:25  
"But you can't be-"

Doreen  22:26  
"I can't stop you, but you just have to understand that."

Janelle Jolley  22:29  
Yeah, yeah.

Doreen  22:30  
And the gravity of his words made me realize like, "Yeah, get your shit together, girl. You ain't all that."

Janelle Jolley  22:38  

Doreen  22:39  
You can be all that but not on the family name.

Janelle Jolley  22:42  
Yeah, that's right, that's right. Not yet.

Doreen  22:44  
Yeah, not yet. And so I straightened up and I became head girl.

Janelle Jolley  22:52  
Your childhood-

Doreen  22:54  

Janelle Jolley  22:54  
You grew up in a family, youngest of seven. A lot of...a lot of social pressure.

Doreen  22:59  
So, I studied telecom engineering.

Janelle Jolley  23:02  
In what?

Doreen  23:03  
In Fiji.

Janelle Jolley  23:04  
No, no- in uni?

Doreen  23:06  
Yeah. We had our telecom school.

Janelle Jolley  23:09  
But is that before after you became an activist in Fiji?

Doreen  23:14  
I was always an activist.

Janelle Jolley  23:16  
You need to talk about it, Miss Thing!

Doreen  23:17  
Okay. Let's do this.

Janelle Jolley  23:19  
Let's do that.

Doreen  23:20  
So I studied telecom engineering, and the best part about it is they used to pick people- can you believe this? And this is the islands. And that's why I know we're better than the United States. Like, way ahead. Because we got equal pay as women.

Janelle Jolley  23:39  
Huh! Back in the day?

Doreen  23:41  
Yeah, absolutely.

Janelle Jolley  23:43  
Wow. Like, exactly equal pay?

Doreen  23:45  
Exactly. You went to study this because that was on the list. And you studied that and you got equal pay.

Janelle Jolley  23:52  

Doreen  23:52  
Because, you know why? You studied to get that job.

Janelle Jolley  23:56  
That's right. And because you studied it, that means you are capable of this output-

Doreen  24:00  
Absolutely! There was never a question.

Janelle Jolley  24:03  

Doreen  24:03  
Why would you- that's why, when I came- when I went back to school here in the United States and they told me...they discussed the pay for men and women, and I was like, "So do men get extra courses to get more pay?" And they said, "No." I couldn't go back into that field. That's what socialism is!

Janelle Jolley  24:25  

Doreen  24:26  
You get equal pay for doing equal tasks.

Janelle Jolley  24:29  
That's right.

Doreen  24:30  
What makes you so special that you get more than me?

Janelle Jolley  24:32  
That's right.

Doreen  24:33  
I became a technician.

Janelle Jolley  24:36  

Doreen  24:37  
For telecom.

Janelle Jolley  24:38  
In Fiji?

Doreen  24:39  
In Fiji.  

Janelle Jolley  24:40  

Doreen  24:41  
And my brother was a radio technician and- the brother that didn't break my legs. So I- he was always like my hero.

Janelle Jolley  24:51  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  24:52  
I had applied to be an automotive electrician and I went through- in the islands, when you're in high school, you go through aptitude tests with real companies to prepare you for the job.

Doreen  25:09  
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Doreen  25:09  
You really have to...

Janelle Jolley  25:11  

Doreen  25:12  
So that you're prepared. You know what an aptitude test feels like, you know what an interview feels like. And you know what rejection feels like.

Janelle Jolley  25:19  
That's right.

Doreen  25:20  
So in the summer years, the school sets you up, like you truly apply for a job. And then when you hear back, then the school lets you know, then you get your rejection. And so, but it so happened, I was not rejected. So out of like, 6,000 applicants, it dropped down to 24 and I was selected.

Janelle Jolley  25:45  
Wow. Because you a Narayan.

Doreen  25:49  
I don't know. But okay, maybe. But I was really good, just to let you know.

Janelle Jolley  25:56  
Of course, of course.  

Doreen  25:57  
Because my parents made me that way. So...I had to turn it down because my father said, "Yeah, you have to finish high school." And so I went and told them. They said, "You know, if you apply again, we won't even consider you next time." And I said, "Well, I have to help you understand that, if I take the job, I don't have a roof to live under."

Janelle Jolley  26:25  
Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right.

Doreen  26:27  
And I applied again in my year 12. Didn't even get an aptitude test request.

Janelle Jolley  26:36  

Doreen  26:37  

Janelle Jolley  26:37  

Doreen  26:38  
But I went with Post and Telecom, and I got invited, aptitude test, interview. I was so freakin smartass.

Janelle Jolley  26:49  
Yes, of course!

Doreen  26:50  
When I look back at my interview, I cringe! I was so bold and brave.

Janelle Jolley  26:58  
That's right.

Doreen  26:59  
And I didn't- because I didn't know the engineers that were interviewing me. And after I joined the company, I realized "Oh, damn!" They were, like, big engineers! Ignorance is bliss.

Janelle Jolley  27:12  
That's right. It truly is.

Doreen  27:15  
In the islands they recognize your leadership skills? And then they pick you out for training. They select you out to go for training, leadership training. Isn't it amazing?

Janelle Jolley  27:26  
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  27:28  
Then I got selected for leadership training, and I got to meet some real amazing people that were going to run against the current prime minister. And I was at a seminar when I met the people that were running the cabinet that was running against the current prime minister, and the current prime minister is from the island where my mother comes from. But I really liked this man, Dr. Bavadra. And I really liked his ideas because it was very socialist. Yeah, it was-

Doreen  27:28  
Why did that appeal to you?

Doreen  27:49  
Because, number one, he wanted all seniors to have free bus rides.

Janelle Jolley  28:16  
Oh! Universal?

Doreen  28:18  

Janelle Jolley  28:19  
Universal, material benefit.

Doreen  28:20  
And that's why I adored him because I'm like, "Ah, they don't have a job."

Janelle Jolley  28:25  

Doreen  28:26  
They sell produce that only earn so little.

Janelle Jolley  28:32  

Doreen  28:33  
And isn't that great?

Janelle Jolley  28:35  
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  28:36  
So he had ideas like that. And I'm like, "Yeah, I support him." And so I ended up watching and observing him because he was one of the guest speakers at one of the conferences I attended. And I was so- I was on the observation, like, "Let me watch him."

Janelle Jolley  28:55  

Doreen  28:56  
Let me see if he's credible. Let me see if I can endorse him. Let me see if I can, you know-

Janelle Jolley  29:02  
And he was- was he running for, like, island wide or nationwide office?

Doreen  29:06  
Nation, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  29:07  
Ah. In the legislature?

Doreen  29:09  
Yeah, PM. Prime Minister. He was going-

Janelle Jolley  29:12  
Oh, he was- he wanted to be like-

Doreen  29:13  
He was gonna go head to head with the prime minister.

Janelle Jolley  29:15  
I see. I see, I see. Okay.

Doreen  29:16  
And I believed in labor. I was a labor union-

Janelle Jolley  29:20  
Why did you believe in labor?

Doreen  29:22  
Because you need somebody to stand up for you, because you cannot stand alone. So if we bend-

Janelle Jolley  29:28  
Why did you understand- I'm trying to get at, why did you have that understanding as a... teenager?

Doreen  29:35  
As a teenager.

Janelle Jolley  29:36  
Why did you have that? How did you come to the understanding as a-

Doreen  29:39  
It's because I knew that when you stand alone, you are very insignificant.

Janelle Jolley  29:45  

Doreen  29:45  
When you stand with a group-

Janelle Jolley  29:47  

Doreen  29:48  
When you stand with a group, you are somebody.

Janelle Jolley  29:50  

Doreen  29:51  
That one body represents a whole group.

Janelle Jolley  29:54  
That's right.

Doreen  29:54  
And that whole group makes the difference.

Janelle Jolley  29:56  
Huh! But how did you come to that understanding? Because I'm sure not everybody your age at that time had that understanding. How did you come to that understanding?

Doreen  30:06  
Because I knew I was powerful.

Janelle Jolley  30:09  
How and why? Tell me what you mean by that.

Doreen  30:11  
I believed that I could give back, but me being giving back alone would make little difference. If I gave back together as a group, we would be a force.

Janelle Jolley  30:22  

Doreen  30:23  
And I didn't- I was not interested in myself.

Janelle Jolley  30:26  

Doreen  30:26  
I was interested in the force.

Janelle Jolley  30:28  
Huh! Hey, come on.

Doreen  30:30  
Yeah. Because it's never about me. So even as I stand today-

Janelle Jolley  30:36  

Doreen  30:36  
It's never about me. It's about the force that I can bring to the table. An if I bring others with me, we have a bigger force.

Janelle Jolley  30:45  
That's right.

Doreen  30:46  
It's never about me.

Janelle Jolley  30:48  
Ah! Come on, help us!

Doreen  30:49  
Ever, ever. Because it's never about the individual.

Janelle Jolley  30:54  
That's right.

Doreen  30:55  
Because we are insignificant-

Janelle Jolley  30:57  
As individuals! Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  30:59  
We stand alone. And if we make it about us, we are nothing.

Janelle Jolley  31:03  

Doreen  31:04  
We're bullshit.

Janelle Jolley  31:05  
That's right. Hey!

Doreen  31:05  
When we stand together, we become a force. We become somebody.

Janelle Jolley  31:09  
That's right. That's right. That's right.

Doreen  31:11  
My mother, her chief, her chief in her island was the prime minister.

Janelle Jolley  31:20  

Doreen  31:21  
And I was speaking against her chief.

Janelle Jolley  31:24  
Huh! Why?

Doreen  31:25  
It was really hard, because he was prime minister.

Janelle Jolley  31:27  
Why were you speaking against him? And what prompted you to speak against him?

Doreen  31:33  
I'm glad you asked.

Janelle Jolley  31:34  
Yes, of course.

Doreen  31:36  
And that's the reason why I couldn't go back to the island. Her mother was from Lau, the Lau group, L-A-U, Lau group. And our Prime Minister, Ratu Sir Kamisese Mara, he was the prime minister at the time for, like, 17 years. He was the first prime minister and he was prime minister for 17 years.

Janelle Jolley  31:59  
In Fiji?

Doreen  32:00  
Yeah. And he was the first prime minister and he was from the island group, group of islands where my mother came from, Vivili, and he was the chief. His family was the chief. And so you support your chief.

Janelle Jolley  32:16  
That's right.

Doreen  32:16  

Janelle Jolley  32:17  
Because he's your chief!

Doreen  32:18  
Yeah, you're Native.

Janelle Jolley  32:19  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  32:20  
So I decided to go against him because...he enjoyed the good life. Like everybody who has been in power, you disregard what the ordinary people need.

Janelle Jolley  32:39  
Huh! What does that sound like?

Doreen  32:41  
Self serving.

Janelle Jolley  32:43  
Sound like a lot of what's going on right here in the U-S-of-A.

Doreen  32:47  
Girl, word. So I am now Lauan because my family's Waning Olo And so I couldn't speak against because he's my mother's chief.

Janelle Jolley  33:03  

Doreen  33:03  
But I was raised in the city, so chief is like, "Eh."

Janelle Jolley  33:09  
Like, "That's cute."

Doreen  33:09  

Janelle Jolley  33:10  

Doreen  33:10  
It's nice. And because I had observed Dr. Bavadra, and I liked what he was doing because he was for the people, I decided to promote him. And because I was-

Janelle Jolley  33:26  
Tell me who that was and tell me why you decided to promote him against the chief?

Doreen  33:31  
Dr. Bavadra was running against Ratu Mara. Dr. Bavadra was, I think he was more socialist than Raut Mara. But because Ratu Mara had lived 17 years in power, and he was good, but he was the first prime minister ever since we became independent from England.

Janelle Jolley  33:59  
That's why you got that lovely accent.

Doreen  34:01  
Yeah. And, you know, it wasn't a bad life. It really wasn't. Because we had the best of both worlds. We had the Western world and we have our tradition, and it melted beautifully. There was nothing wrong. But when you start neglecting the people that are in need-

Janelle Jolley  34:19  
Come on!  

Doreen  34:21  
Is when I have a problem.

Janelle Jolley  34:22  
Hey, hey, hey hey!

Doreen  34:24  
Thank you.

Janelle Jolley  34:24  

Doreen  34:25  
And he was very basic. He was going to give free bus rides, free health care. And it's like, okay, if education isn't, you know, isn't gonna cost much, I'm okay with that. But, equal pay, I have no problem with, you know?

Janelle Jolley  34:44  
Come on.

Doreen  34:44  
So it was very basic. Let's look after the people that can't-

Janelle Jolley  34:49  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  34:50  
Take care of themselves.

Janelle Jolley  34:51  
That's right.

Doreen  34:52  
And that was my attraction.

Janelle Jolley  34:54  

Doreen  34:54  
And so I, because I was a civil servant-

Janelle Jolley  34:59  
Doing what?

Doreen  35:00  
As a technician for Post and Telecom.

Janelle Jolley  35:03  
Even during uni?

Doreen  35:04  
Yeah, Post and Telecom was civil service. It was run by the government. And, yes, we could unionize.

Janelle Jolley  35:11  
Ah! Okay, okay, okay.

Doreen  35:13  
And I'm a strong union member.

Janelle Jolley  35:16  
That's right.

Doreen  35:16  
And I would promote unionism. And so why I like that, why I like Dr. Bavadra is because he had a whole group of- he was a professor, I think, in the University of South Pacific. And we were a great hub for the islands. I mean, we are more advanced than somebody would think. And so the group that was going to be his cabinet was some... was a group of people that I really could, like, see it happening. Because they were all aligned with who I thought was going to be good for the country?

Janelle Jolley  35:56  

Doreen  35:57  
And so I started...I started campaigning, not on a soapbox on the street side. I started campaigning, one-on-one at work.

Janelle Jolley  36:07  
Ah, canvassing, maybe?

Doreen  36:09  
Yeah. It was like changing minds, changing hearts, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  36:13  
Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's exactly what we did.  

Doreen  36:15  
Yeah. And so I did that. My mother had a hard time. And I told her it was okay, you can vote for your chief, I really have no problem with you voting for your chief.

Janelle Jolley  36:26  
That's right, I understand.

Doreen  36:27  
Yeah, because it', who you have to- however, on the other hand, I'm going to do what I think is right. So I would just campaign one-on-one like, "Oh man, isn't it- did you get invited to the party last night?" And they were like, "What party?" "You know, the one they had the prime minister through?" They go, "No." I said, "I wondered, too. I wasn't invited."

Janelle Jolley  36:50  

Doreen  36:51  
How all of a sudden we got money for that, right?

Janelle Jolley  36:53  
All of a sudden!

Doreen  36:54  
Yeah. And now they can't give us a raise. Because we used to have annual increments.

Janelle Jolley  36:59  
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  37:01  
I said, "Yeah, they had party for them, money for the party, but they didn't have money for the raise." And they would look at me like...I said, "Yeah, no, really, your brother could have been hired. He just graduated from high school. But, no, there was no money, but they had money for the party and fixing the road."

Janelle Jolley  37:19  
So you took- let me understand what you're saying. And you tell me if I'm understanding incorrectly. You saw what was happening and you use the...the... I'm drunk so the words that I'm using are not going to be correct. But you use the nonsensicalness of what was happening to try and organize with your co workers. Like, "Oh, they don't have- they don't- they told us they didn't have money for x but you saw how they they came up with it when the queen was coming."

Doreen  37:50  

Janelle Jolley  37:50  
When the prince was coming, and how this connects to your life.

Doreen  37:54  

Janelle Jolley  37:54  
Is that- was that what I'm understanding correct?

Doreen  37:56  
Absolutely. Because what would happen is, my family was, probably when I look back now, would be considered well off. I would literally have people, my coworkers borrow money from me.

Janelle Jolley  38:10  

Doreen  38:12  
And they would pay me back on payday.

Janelle Jolley  38:16  
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  38:17  
And they would pay me back. I had no vices, I lived at home with my parents. I had no vices.

Janelle Jolley  38:23  
You didn't no loans to pay back, you didn't have no bookie to pay back.  

Doreen  38:26  
Nothing, nothing.  

Janelle Jolley  38:26  
You were good.

Doreen  38:25  
Absolutely. I gave my father $5 for his pocket money. Just to tell him, "Don't tell me I don't give you money."

Janelle Jolley  38:35  
That's right, that's right.

Doreen  38:36  
And he used to look at me and smile, and he goes, "Yeah, I got it. You wouldn't be able to pay for your lipstick with that money". And I said, "Who cares what the amount is, I gave-"

Janelle Jolley  38:48  
I gave it to you.

Doreen  38:49  
Oh man, my dad. He was the best. He really was hilarious.

Janelle Jolley  38:54  
So you were out of the country when there was a big election.

Doreen  39:00  
Yeah, they had the election and my guy won. Dr. Bavadra was called the winner and I left. I flew out of the country to go on vacation on a Monday. Four years of service, you had a one month paid vacation. After eight years of service, you had two months, eight weeks, paid vacation. So I left...immediately. I actually left when they were calling the election going to Dr. Bavadra, and that meant Ratu Sir Kamisese Mara, my mother's chief, had lost.

Janelle Jolley  39:53  

Doreen  39:53  
I was already out of the country.

Janelle Jolley  39:56  
In the United States?

Doreen  39:57  
In the United States on vacation, trying to find out my life way, where I wanted to go. And then while- then I got proposed to and told my suitor at the time, my husband, that I was going to come back when I was 28. Because I was 25 at the time, and I wanted to be married at 28. So that I told- so I told him, I was going to come back at 28-

Janelle Jolley  40:33  
To the United States.

Doreen  40:34  
To the United States and marry him. And he did not believe me, because...I don't think he had ever met somebody with a mindset the way I was. But I had to refuse him after his proposal, because he had come three years too soon. So-

Janelle Jolley  40:59  
Because in your mind, it was 28.

Doreen  41:01  

Janelle Jolley  41:01  
You were 25.

Doreen  41:02  
I had to be married at 28, because I had so much to do between those years. And so... when I called to- so he proposed to me. I met him on a Saturday. He proposed to me on the Wednesday, which is like three days.

Janelle Jolley  41:19  
Hell nah. Huh.  

Doreen  41:22  
And then the next day, which is Thursday, I called to confirm my seat flying back to the United States, which it was on Continental. And they said, "We no longer fly to Fiji Island."

Janelle Jolley  41:38  

Doreen  41:38  
And I'm like, "Excuse me, you brought me here."

Janelle Jolley  41:41  
That's right.

Doreen  41:41  
And they go, "Oh, okay. They had a coup. And we no longer fly there."

Janelle Jolley  41:46  
Were you not following the coup?

Doreen  41:49  
No, was on vacation.

Janelle Jolley  41:51  
Oh, you was really living your life.

Doreen  41:53  

Janelle Jolley  41:54  

Doreen  41:57  
So I didn't think, you know, I thought, "Okay, power has shifted." I didn't think there was going to be a coup d'etat. And so I was really shocked when they said they no longer flew. It was like, "How can that be when you brought me here?" And it's like, "Oh, we no longer fly because of the coup." "What coup? Okay." And then they said, "But if you fly with any other airlines that take you there, it will be good." So it was going to be Qantas. And then I decided to call my mother who lived in Sydney to say, "Hey, what's going on?" And she's like, "We were hoping you would call cuz don't go back to Fiji! Come to Australia." And I'm like, "Why?" And they go, "You are wanted in the islands." And I said, "For what?" And it's like for speaking against your employer, which was the Fijian government. Because I was a civil servant. But I thought I was safe because I did not stand on a soapbox at a street corner to campaign, I did a one-on-one. But this contract I had signed as a civil servant, that I will not speak out against my employer. And although it was not a soapbox, they they were...they had put me on the wanted list. What I said back then made sense. Because it may not have shifted because of the Martingale, the chief system. It may not have shifted, but it definitely made a dent.

Janelle Jolley  43:56  

Doreen  43:56  
I would claim that because for me to make it on the wanted list would mean that I was successful in what I had articulated. And all I did was literally speak the truth.

Janelle Jolley  44:11  

Doreen  44:12  
My truth was, if they are not looking out for you, than they are looking out for- if they are looking out for themselves, you missed out.

Janelle Jolley  44:22  

Doreen  44:24  
You got overlooked.

Janelle Jolley  44:26  

Doreen  44:26  
I would probably say that's why I was a threat. Because what I spoke was real. Because the man had won- the man I endorsed had won.

Janelle Jolley  44:46  
My girl was a problem. She had to dip. Also, is it just me or could you listen to Doreen's lovely British lilt all day? Anyway, part two is up tomorrow on life and politics in the USA, post-exile.

Part 2 Transcript

Doreen  0:06  
And we're back with part two with Doreen on What's Left To Do. I'm your host, Janelle. So we left off with Doreen learning about the coup that happened in her native Fiji and that she was on the wanted list. All of this, she found out while she was out of the country on vacation.

Doreen  0:31  
I was going to stay and make a stand for people that I cared about, that needed to educate their children be able to have shelter, and feed their family.

Doreen  0:45  

Doreen  0:45  
And that's all I wanted to do is fight for them. I was settled. Like I said, my family had a home that was paid for and I had no hardship. I had to stand up for my, the people I work with, that had hardship. And they weren't the only ones. That's why I wanted to stand up for them. And so I thought I could make the difference?

Doreen  1:10  

Doreen  1:12  
At the end of my vacation, when I called my mother, my mother said don't go back because my uncle who had...who was, you know, had a position in the government, had called my mother and said, "Where is Doreen? Tell Doreen." And my mother said, "She's out," to tell her...he knew I had gone because I told him I was going. He said to tell my mother, he told my mother to tell me not to come back because I was on the wanted list.

Janelle Jolley  1:42  
Ah. You're on the wanted list.

Doreen  1:45  
I was on the wanted list.

Janelle Jolley  1:46  
You learned about that-

Doreen  1:47  
Learned about this when I called my mother at the end of my vacation.

Janelle Jolley  1:51  

Doreen  1:52  
And she said, "Oh, I was hoping you'd call because...don't go back there. Just come back, come to Australia and just live," you know, "Just live here." And so my husband had proposed and I had said, "No," and I had already told him "No" on a Wednesday, and I'm talking to my mother on a Thursday, because I'm supposed to fly out on Saturday to get there Monday. And she goes, "Just come back. Just come to Sydney." And I said, "Oh, okay." So I thought, if I was going to go back- if I was flying to Sydney, where my family lives, I don't have a job. So if I don't have a job, I can kind of hang out in California.

Janelle Jolley  2:36  
Sure, sure.

Doreen  2:37  
And then fell in love with my husband.

Janelle Jolley  2:39  

Doreen  2:40  
Because I'd never taken a chance in my life.

Janelle Jolley  2:42  

Doreen  2:42  
My life was always mapped out.

Janelle Jolley  2:44  

Doreen  2:45  
And so it was really awesome because I was able to date a man without being chaperoned.

Janelle Jolley  2:54  

Doreen  2:54  
He was my first boyfriend.

Janelle Jolley  2:56  
That's beautiful.

Doreen  2:57  
Without being chaperoned.

Janelle Jolley  2:58  
That's beautiful.

Doreen  2:59  

Doreen  3:30  
What I understood is that you will profit because you have power. So I became...I understood would profit. I didn't have a problem with you profiting. Just don't neglect.

Janelle Jolley  3:56  

Doreen  3:58  
I'm okay with your profiting.

Doreen  4:00  

Doreen  4:01  
But at the same time, you can take care of your people.

Doreen  4:05  
Huh. Come on.

Doreen  4:06  
So I am not against you profiting, because I understand that is attached with power.

Janelle Jolley  4:12  

Doreen  4:13  
Just literally based on the fact that, you know, if I'm seen favorably, what I endorse would be a gain.

Janelle Jolley  4:24  

Doreen  4:25  
So I understand that, even if I don't profit, I understand it's a gain. So, if you're in that position that you can profit, I'm actually forgiving. Only if you don't forget the greater good. If you don't bring others along with you. I have a huge problem if you're the only two profiting-

Doreen  4:54  
That's right.

Doreen  4:55  
And nobody else is, that is unforgiveable.

Doreen  4:59  
Tell me why.

Doreen  5:03 represent the people that put you there. And if it wasn't for them, you would not be holding that position. And therefore you need to take care of the people that put you there. And if you do not take- if you don't give a shit about the people that put you there, the people that put you there ought to know that you are shit.

Doreen  5:26  

Doreen  5:27  
And that you don't need to be there.

Janelle Jolley  5:29  

Doreen  5:29  
You need to be replaced.

Janelle Jolley  5:31  

Doreen  5:31  
Because if you profit, that's okay. But it's not okay if you are the only one profitting.

Doreen  5:37  

Doreen  5:38  
So, I send you there? Take care of me. If you're not gonna take care of me, let's find somebody who will. Because...I think power comes with profiting, but if you don't share that profit with the people that are depending on you, literally for their livelihood, who the fuck do you think you are?

Doreen  6:03  
C'mon! Tell it, say it.

Doreen  6:04  

Doreen  6:05  
Say it.

Doreen  6:05  
And people should question! People who put them there should say, "You know what? Fuck off."

Doreen  6:10  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  6:11  
Just fuck off.

Doreen  6:13  
That's right.

Doreen  6:14  
You know what? You can take care of your friends and you can take care of me.

Doreen  6:17  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  6:18  
But you can't only take care of your freakin' self.

Doreen  6:20  
That's right.

Doreen  6:20  
And forget about me because you need me to be there.

Janelle Jolley  6:23  
Huh! Say that! Say that.

Doreen  6:24  
You need me to be there. And therefore, if you need me, like Mitch McConnell, that fuckin' bastard-

Doreen  6:31  

Doreen  6:31  
You know what? I don't even know why, how he fucking made it!

Janelle Jolley  6:35  
That's right. But let's tell the truth now, there's Mitch McConnell, who is a bastard, 100%, underline, underline. But, Nancy Pelosi? Also a bastard!

Doreen  6:47  
Well, Nancy Pelosi- I mean, you know, she's got to stand up. I know we didn't replace her because we're not quite sure of the person who was trying to replace her.

Janelle Jolley  6:59  
That's fair.  

Doreen  7:00  
That's the truth.

Janelle Jolley  7:01  
That's fair! That's fair!

Doreen  7:02  
So basically, I'm like, you know, I need somebody who's got balls.

Janelle Jolley  7:08  

Doreen  7:09  
And, you know, she's not my number one pick, but I can't find anybody. I don't think he was the right one to replace her.

Janelle Jolley  7:19  
That's fair.

Doreen  7:19  
So I'm ready to replace that one.

Janelle Jolley  7:22  
Right now.

Doreen  7:24  

Janelle Jolley  7:25  

Doreen  7:26  
Girl. Absolutely. Like, she should have been, like, two years ago.

Janelle Jolley  7:31  
That's right. She 87!

Doreen  7:34  
That's why-

Janelle Jolley  7:36  
Yo care client ain't 87!

Doreen  7:39  
And you know what? It's like, "Shut the fuck up. Leave now."

Janelle Jolley  7:42  
That's right!

Doreen  7:43  
I'm actually trying to write a letter to her office.

Janelle Jolley  7:47  
We gon' coordinate.

Doreen  7:48  
Okay. Can we?

Janelle Jolley  7:49  
Yes! 100%.

Doreen  7:49  
Because it's like, please leave...

Doreen  7:52  
Go out with some dignity.

Doreen  7:54  

Janelle Jolley  7:55  
Don't RBG it.

Doreen  7:55  
Because, number one, you do not represent who we are.

Janelle Jolley  7:59  
That's correct.

Doreen  7:59  
And if you don't represent who we are, you are irrelevant. Literally. Just go.

Doreen  8:06  
That's right.

Doreen  8:06  
Just go. I believe that we should start grooming people.

Janelle Jolley  8:09  
That's right.

Doreen  8:13  
Like, I think Ocasio is awesome, in that explains why she...whatever she does, and why she makes that stand. It's very clear.

Janelle Jolley  8:26  

Doreen  8:27  
The Pelosis and the, what you call it?

Janelle Jolley  8:31  

Doreen  8:31  
And the Feinsteins.

Janelle Jolley  8:33  

Doreen  8:34  
They've been in power.

Janelle Jolley  8:35  
For too long.

Doreen  8:37  
They want to keep the status quo.

Janelle Jolley  8:41  
That's right.

Doreen  8:42  
Which is Biden.

Doreen  8:43  
That's right. Come on! Let's be honest.

Doreen  8:48  

Janelle Jolley  8:48  

Doreen  8:49  
So the thing is, okay, we've got to...first base. Now we got to check.

Janelle Jolley  8:57  
That's right.

Doreen  8:57  
All over again.

Janelle Jolley  8:59  
That's right.

Doreen  9:00  
And I think we need to start grooming people: what do you stand for?

Janelle Jolley  9:05  

Doreen  9:06  
So that's, I think, is where it all lies. What do you stand for?

Janelle Jolley  9:12  
That's right.

Doreen  9:13  
And so that you can find your platform.

Janelle Jolley  9:16  
That's right.

Doreen  9:16  
And support the person you stand for. Because right now...a lot of people don't know what they stand for.

Janelle Jolley  9:23  
In 2016, during the Democratic primary race, how was that- what was your situation then?

Doreen  9:32  
My situation in 2016 was, you know, I was...I was comfortable. I had everything I needed in life, I just needed...I just needed what I believed what Bernie Sanders wanted for the country.

Janelle Jolley  9:52  
Wait, so you never, ever, even for a second waivered and was for Hillary in 2016?

Doreen  9:58  

Janelle Jolley  9:58  
Why Why? Why?

Doreen  10:00  
Because Bernie is- was representing the greater good.

Janelle Jolley  10:06  
Huh! Why do you- why did you perceive that Hillary was not representing the greater good?

Doreen  10:12 didn't matter what she stood for because it didn't resound with Bernie.

Janelle Jolley  10:20  

Doreen  10:21  
So I never focus on things that...everybody wants this first woman and everything. But that's bullshit, at the end of the day. At the end of the day-

Janelle Jolley  10:35  
Tell us why, tell us why.

Doreen  10:36  
At the end of the day it's bullshit, because based on the fact that...still people will need shelter, still people need Medicare, medical, and still people will need education. And if you do not- because those are the basics for people to be able to support themselves to grow. And if you don't support them, if you don't push them, then...

Janelle Jolley  11:04  
What are we talking about? Why are we even here?

Doreen  11:05  
Yeah, you're just a sideshow. You're just a sideshow. Even- I believe in endorsing women. But, you know what? It's secondary to primary life.

Janelle Jolley  11:18  

Doreen  11:19  
It becomes a nothing when you compare to shelter, education and health care.

Janelle Jolley  11:25  

Doreen  11:25  
Bottom line.

Janelle Jolley  11:27  

Doreen  11:27  
Bottom line.

Janelle Jolley  11:28  

Doreen  11:28  
Because, you know, everybody needs shelter.

Janelle Jolley  11:30  
That's right.

Doreen  11:31  
Everybody needs healthcare.

Janelle Jolley  11:32  
Wait, wait. Everybody? Regardless of anything?

Doreen  11:35  
Regardless of anything! What makes you so special that some people should and some people shouldn't?

Janelle Jolley  11:40  
Come on.

Doreen  11:41  
Nothing. If I'm worried about shelter? Damn, I have to take three jobs just to get shelter. Who wants that kind?

Janelle Jolley  11:47  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  11:48  
What have we to gain? Nothing.

Janelle Jolley  11:50  
That's right.

Doreen  11:51  
You have nothing to gain, you just lowered the life...the lifestyle of an individual. Whereas, if you provide, you know, you make shelter and health care available readily,  you don't have to worry about it and be scared. Let me say scared. Because I've been there.

Janelle Jolley  12:08  
Yeah. Listen.

Doreen  12:10  
And so, if that's your fear, how can can you think about giving frickin' back?

Janelle Jolley  12:18  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  12:19  
Like, how can I give back when I can't even afford?

Janelle Jolley  12:22  
That's right.

Doreen  12:23  
So if you provide them with shelter and health care, and really when you're young, you don't need that much healthcare.

Janelle Jolley  12:30  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  12:31  
Yeah. You just-

Janelle Jolley  12:32  
But you should have it so that you don't go bankrupt.

Doreen  12:34  
Yeah. You should have it because you're a human being.

Janelle Jolley  12:37  
Eh, eh, come on. Be honest, be honest, be honest!  

Doreen  12:40  
No other reason, you're a human being.

Janelle Jolley  12:42  
You're a human being! And that's it.

Doreen  12:44  
Bottom line.

Janelle Jolley  12:45  
That's it.  

Doreen  12:46  
So if you make it affordable, then you- and then, if education is free, you have the freedom to become creative, and when you become creative, you give- you provide to society.

Janelle Jolley  12:59  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  13:00  
You're giving up yourself. And as you give up yourself, your esteem becomes fatter. And when your esteem is like, "Man, I am so good." What else do you need?

Janelle Jolley  13:11  
What else do you need?

Doreen  13:12  
What else do you need? Somebody who's just providing by giving back-

Janelle Jolley  13:17  
That's right.

Doreen  13:19  
When you're struggling you are fearful.

Janelle Jolley  13:24  

Doreen  13:25  
When you are fearful, you think there's anything creative about that? No. You're just being fearful and you're fighting tooth and nail. How can you be freaking creative when you're fighting tooth and nail just so that you don't become homeless?

Janelle Jolley  13:42  
Huh! Come on. Help us, help us!  

Doreen  13:45  
No. That's why I'm thinking if- and people laugh at me, and I'm like, "Really? Is something to laugh about?" Okay, if we're giving you $15 an hour, because that's what minimum wage, then the government should subsidize-

Janelle Jolley  14:03  

Doreen  14:04  
To make it to $20 an hour. So that you still have a job, you have- you can provide yourself with shelter, and you don't worry about health care because, you know, the, you know, we're all in this together. And then as you have no fear, you will become creative or you will become productive-

Janelle Jolley  14:30  
That's right.

Doreen  14:30  
And therefore you create this, and then therefore it grows, and therefore profit. Like, the whole country profits. Why is it so difficult?

Janelle Jolley  14:41  

Doreen  14:42  
There is no reason, unless it is that you want to create the discrepancy so that-

Janelle Jolley  14:49  
Say it, go ahead.  

Doreen  14:50  
So that you can feel good about yourself because there's poverty.

Janelle Jolley  14:54  

Doreen  14:56  
And when there's poverty, there's struggle.  And where there's struggle, there's toil. And where there's toil, you're fighting. You're scraping and you're unable to understand you need to be voted out of office.

Janelle Jolley  15:12  

Doreen  15:12  
Yeah, we need to replace people that don't serve your purpose.

Janelle Jolley  15:19  
Come on!

Doreen  15:20  
Because you know what? If they're not- you have to realize who is actually serving you.

Janelle Jolley  15:28  

Doreen  15:28  
Because you pay your taxes to pay for their pay. And if you are paying them for bullshit?

Janelle Jolley  15:35  

Doreen  15:36  
Get rid of them.

Janelle Jolley  15:37  
Come on.

Doreen  15:38  
Like, I mean, it's not difficult. You know what? You're struggling? Why? They're not fighting for you, therefore you frickin' replace them.

Janelle Jolley  15:48  
That's right.

Doreen  15:49  
It is not difficult. Replace them. They're not serving your purpose.

Janelle Jolley  15:53  
That's right.

Doreen  15:54  
But why-

Janelle Jolley  15:54  
And tell me- tell us how we know they're not serving your purpose?

Doreen  15:58  
Because if you're struggling today-

Janelle Jolley  16:01  
Huh! Come on!

Doreen  16:02  
If you're struggling to pay education for your children, they're not serving you. I really want to reach out to communities. And I think the best way to do it is eating and singing.

Janelle Jolley  16:17  
What do you mean?

Doreen  16:18  
Like if you have a sing along?

Janelle Jolley  16:21  

Doreen  16:22  
Because everybody likes a good sing along? When you feel like you're together, then you understand, like, "Hmm. What has Nancy Pelosi done for us?" You have to win the community's heart in order to change the policy. That's all I did in the Fiji Islands. Question the purpose.

Janelle Jolley  16:45  

Doreen  16:46  
And the answer was resounding: We don't need them.

Janelle Jolley  16:49  
That's right.

Doreen  16:49  
They don't serve a purpose.

Janelle Jolley  16:51  
That's right.

Doreen  16:52  
But you got to build that community. Because you can.

Janelle Jolley  16:57  

Doreen  16:57  
Because our basic human need is to feel like we belong. And when you feel like you belong, you feel like you're heard. Because you're heard, you belong. And when you belong, you can unseat somebody. But at the same time, I want to help families grow together. And part of the thing is, like, a family that dances together, grows together. And so I want to...I really want to give people a sense of, "We got this." It might feel difficult. Like, I don't want to be awake at 5am in the morning, because I'm so tired, this child woke up. Well, let's go to the place where we can dance our morning away. And then you don't feel like you're alone. And then you're re-energized. And we build a community. It's like a dream? But it's one family at a time. It's not difficult.

Janelle Jolley  18:08  
No, it's not. It's not.

Doreen  18:11  
You cannot airwaves.

Janelle Jolley  18:19  

Doreen  18:20  
Because if we stand together as a community, we can thrive.

Janelle Jolley  18:25  
That's right.

Doreen  18:26  
Because if you touch somebody's life personally, it becomes real.

Janelle Jolley  18:31  

Doreen  18:32  
When it becomes real, it's like, "Man, they touched my family's life."

Janelle Jolley  18:37  

Doreen  18:38  
Be the solution to another family's life. And as you reach out to that person in the community, and sometimes you don't even have to be the person in need, because it's such a feel good just watching somebody feel empowered, or become the recipient of something so little that made a huge difference.

Janelle Jolley  19:02  
That's right.

Doreen  19:03  
And so the feeling good is so, so good, that you want to see somebody- you want to be part of whatever that, you know, the next project or family is, and then- because there will come a time, because we're humans, that I'm gonna need it.

Janelle Jolley  19:23  
That's right.

Doreen  19:23  
And therefore, you know that because I have given-

Janelle Jolley  19:27  
That's right.

Doreen  19:27  
It will come back to me.

Janelle Jolley  19:29  
That's right.

Doreen  19:29  
And therefore you have no choice but to start building this community.

Janelle Jolley  19:35  

Doreen  19:36  
So I show up in Daly City, and we canvass door to door.

Janelle Jolley  19:41  
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In 2020 or 2016?

Doreen  19:44  
2020. I did 2016, as well.

Janelle Jolley  19:47  

Doreen  19:48  
But I'm talking about 2020. So I door to door in Daly City in 2020. 2016, I did several cities. I can't quite remember the names. I know I've never been to those cities. They- it was over a bridge. Because I remember Googling-

Janelle Jolley  20:07  
In the East Bay?

Doreen  20:09  
Yeah, that's one thing my sister is trying to teach me about, East Bay, North Bay, South Bay. I don't know.

Janelle Jolley  20:15  
You don't know which-

Doreen  20:16  
I'm too LA.

Janelle Jolley  20:17  

Doreen  20:18  
I'm too...I'm too LA.

Janelle Jolley  20:20  

Doreen  20:21  
So I can' was one of those bridges, but I got lost. I did get there. Because I like to set up ahead of time. I managed to pick up a, I remember, watermelon. And as I was cutting it, I remember people looking at me like in awe.

Janelle Jolley  20:43  

Doreen  20:43  
Yeah, it was quite fascinating. I guess, first of all, it was all white, right?

Janelle Jolley  20:50  
Right, sure.

Doreen  20:50  
So white.

Janelle Jolley  20:51  

Doreen  20:52  
And I show up with a watermelon, a huge watermelon. And they were all young and it was like- so I said, "Okay, I'll cut it." And then I started cutting, like hotel style. And they were baffled. And they were...I think we were presenting. We had that day, somebody that was going to it the Electoral College? One of those-

Janelle Jolley  21:20  

Doreen  21:21  
Yes, it was a serious. He was a sweetheart, though. He was a Marine, young, Marine sweetheart. Anyway, so I just remember all the young people there, they were baffled that I just carved this watermelon. And being an Islander and chick that's together, it's like, really? You're impressed by this? ? you don't see the rest of my life, right? And I made good friends, a few good friends. But then, once again, we had to concede to Clinton, Hillary Clinton at the 2016 run, which was a let down. And then 2020 came along and I went to Daly City, and I'm- so I'm looking at the people in Daly City, because I'm trying to support the business where we're meeting at. It was a Filipino coffee shop. And I look at the people and I go, "Why don't we have any in ? this point?" And they're like, "Cuz we don't have anybody who's hosting." And I was like, "Really?" And they said, "Yeah." And I said, "I'm willing to open my backyard."

Janelle Jolley  22:47  

Doreen  22:49  
And they said, "You are?" And I said, "Mm-hmm."

Janelle Jolley  22:52  
Yeah. But it was enough, though, because we was up in there every weekend for a minute. Uh-huh.

Doreen  22:59  
And because I figured we needed to recruit around here.

Janelle Jolley  23:06  
You know what's it's funny? Sorry, just- not to interrupt. But you know what's funny? The day after Super Tuesday, Claire, she was like the Bay Area director or whatever, I think. She sent me the map of San Francisco and she was like, "Congratulations, thank you for helping us win and secure Bayview Hunters Point." You know, solidly, Bernie.

Doreen  23:31  
It's not supporting Bernie, it's supporting his platform.

Janelle Jolley  23:35  

Doreen  23:36  
So we can't just go away when it's not an election year, or whatever, and assemble again. We should make it a movement that...stays relevant. Then what will happen is our local officials will have to take what we're asking for seriously. So then we're influencing our local, and then... and then the local... will take us seriously. And then slowly, slowly you you're building up to now four years, you know, we, you know. And so it's not only just showing up before election time? It's like building holding power. Staying in touch, making it count. We want to push this concept so that the people that you're going to elect into office takes you seriously.

Janelle Jolley  24:37  

Doreen  24:39  
So we can't stop.

Janelle Jolley  24:42  
What you're saying is what the left, and/or progressives, however you put that thing, we have to get better at is a durable coalition? A durable, organizing body? Organized body. So that it's not predicated upon, you know, once every four years, or even once every two years, just like you just said, it's every day. Where I have trouble with that is my lack of faith in electoralism as a strategy for a better future. Call it liberation, call it egalitarianism, blah, blah, blah. That's where I had trouble, and I'm working through it. But you- talk me through, because you have you have much have much more experience and wisdom than me. But- because, here's what I'm saying, in terms of my just, like, distaste for it all, it's just think back, me and you.

Doreen  25:51  

Janelle Jolley  25:51  
Where we were in December of 2019 or January of 2020. There was a mass movement for a very clearly articulated, universal, concrete, material benefits for working people, as articulated through one Bernard Sanders. Hugely popular coast to coast, you know? We're gaining momentum, then the Night of the Long Knives happened when Obama came out of his fuckin', you know, castle to, fuckin', shut the kibosh down on that. Then it was the...the pandemic really fucked things up, so it wasn't like- it wasn't a normal primary campaign. And we- and fast forward through all the bullshit and just the nonsense of fucking Joe Biden being the nominee, which does not make any sense if we're being honest, and we are being honest because everybody knows that doesn't make sense.

Doreen  26:51  
Yeah. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  26:50  
But, like, he is now- he's not president, fine. That's fine. Cool. But, like, we got- the left got nothing, in terms of any concessions, in terms of any appointments, in terms of- I'm not gonna say we got nothing, because we did get a Cori Bush. We got, you know, there were progressive- in California specifically, cuz I read Jane Kim's piece, there were local races where progressives did win. You know, we got, nationally, you know, we got a Cori Bush. The squad was able to defend their positions, blah, blah, blah. So it's not that we got nothing, but I'm saying, like, that's still a pittance. The progressive, or left, got a pittance speaking, like, it's not like, you know, the entire Congress is- it's not like we have a hundred AOCs or Ilhans, or blah, blah, blah. So my position, because I'm frustrated, I'm impatient, I'm disgusted with what- how I understand things happened. It's just like, fuck electoralism. This is not our path to liberation. I'm not saying that that's right. I'm just saying that's how I feel. That's my knee jerk reaction. What would you say to a very impetuous, irritated, fuckin clear Janelle, because there are many Janelles, that is like, I don't know everything? I don't know everything. I know that. But I do know that this is bullshit. I do know that we're in a pandemic and the person who just won the presidency openly said that, even if Medicare for All came across his desk, which, which would be there- he would veto it. You understand what I'm saying? Like, what would you say to someone who is so disgusted? I'm from a very impoverished generation. You know, like, I'm... that's all I have to say. I'm from a very impoverished generation. He's openly antagonistic, not just to the people of my generation, but just to working people. What would you say to either help me reframe my disgust, and my angst, and my anger, so that I could channel that towards something useful? What would you say? And I'm not saying you have the answer, but just what would you say? That's right. How would you respond?

Doreen  27:55  
So my response would be, is typically what I tell myself. Okay, you know, you're angry, Doreen is angry.

Janelle Jolley  29:41  
That's right.

Doreen  29:42  
And, rightfully so, because you know how- what I believe in.

Janelle Jolley  29:47  
Yes, that's right.

Doreen  29:48  
That you got to have shelter, you got to have health insurance, you got to have education.

Janelle Jolley  29:52  
That's right.

Doreen  29:53  
So based on all that, I am disappointed. The thing practice, I give myself so much time to be disappointed, and then I've gotta shift.

Janelle Jolley  30:06  

Doreen  30:07  
I have to shift.  

Janelle Jolley  30:08  
Tell me, yes.

Doreen  30:09  
Like you hate Nancy Pelosi-

Janelle Jolley  30:11  

Doreen  30:11  
With a vengeance.

Janelle Jolley  30:12  
I do.

Doreen  30:13  
I do too.

Janelle Jolley  30:14  

Doreen  30:16  
I make the shift, because who will replace her? So that takes the energy out of that, you know, hate.

Janelle Jolley  30:24  

Doreen  30:25  
And so, so I do, yeah, hate her. I even hate Feinstein.

Janelle Jolley  30:31  

Doreen  30:32  
But what do I do? Okay. I can call her office and say, "It's time for you to step down."

Janelle Jolley  30:39  
Get the fuck out, uh-huh.  

Doreen  30:39  
For Feinstein. For Nancy Pelosi, my question is who can replace her? So that's why I'm trying to figure out that they should groom somebody to replace her.

Janelle Jolley  30:41  

Doreen  30:46  
The way I think they should have groomed somebody to replace Feinstein.

Janelle Jolley  30:57  

Doreen  30:58  
And so, so I'm always finding a solution, because I can only be angry and hate so long because I really now have to move to- that's why when Bernie didn't make it, I was really upset.

Janelle Jolley  31:13  
Of course.

Doreen  31:14  
But, you know, it's like, I was even more disappointed, because it's like, oh, we fizzle out till 2020.

Janelle Jolley  31:21  

Doreen  31:21  
Like, why? Like, it's too late. 2019? Too late. We should continue.

Janelle Jolley  31:30  

Doreen  31:30  
Like, we should continue to meet as a group. And I know there are hundreds and 1000s?

Janelle Jolley  31:35  

Doreen  31:35  
But every 50, you know, meet. Let every 50 in that community get together and build on that and grow that, because socialism is really- it's a scary word here in the United States, so we should be making it comfortable for people.

Janelle Jolley  32:00  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doreen  32:01  
So, but you try and cram that in one year before...why?

Janelle Jolley  32:06  

Doreen  32:08  
We should be like working on it right now. So that when 2024 arrives, whoever is going to represent Bernie's position, we're not still fighting, like, socialism. No, we now have the majority of people understanding what socialism is.

Janelle Jolley  32:26  

Doreen  32:27  
So why do we freaking wait?

Janelle Jolley  32:29  
Yeah. So is what you're saying, if I could categorize what you're saying, or classify what you're saying, is what you're saying is, we have to stay focused and organized in a durable manner so that we're not having to quickly try and form some organization, try and form some understanding of XYZ things, and then try and convince other other people of it. We need to form...we need to organize such that is durable enough, such that we have an understanding of things in a durable, long term manner. Is that what I'm understanding you to say?

Doreen  33:17  

Janelle Jolley  33:18  

Doreen  33:18  
Let's just build.

Janelle Jolley  33:19  
Let's build. Okay.

Doreen  33:21  
Every day.

Janelle Jolley  33:22  
Is that- and that's what you're saying. In your opinion, in your analysis, that's what we need- that is the work that we need to do. We need to build day to day.

Doreen  33:32  
That's what community building is.

Janelle Jolley  33:32  
Huh. Huh. Okay. Okay.

Doreen  33:38  
If you look at the entire country, and you pick that community?

Janelle Jolley  33:43  

Doreen  33:43  
Like, four blocks?

Janelle Jolley  33:45  

Doreen  33:46  
You have one person organizing four blocks.

Janelle Jolley  33:50  

Doreen  33:52  
Just to talk about what socialism is.

Janelle Jolley  33:57  
Sure. Or talk about the spoils of socialism. Like, what would it look like if you didn't have to sweat and worry about how to send your child to college? What would it look like if you could go to the doctor whenever you wanted, you didn't have to worry about whether or not it was going to end up in bankruptcy?

Doreen  34:13  
See how easy that is?

Janelle Jolley  34:15  
Yeah. What you're saying is, like, that is the work that we have to do as the left.

Doreen  34:20  
We have to invest in the downtime, and then hold your local people-

Janelle Jolley  34:28  
That's right.

Doreen  34:29  
Accountable to what you're looking for.

Janelle Jolley  34:32  

Doreen  34:32  
And be able to allocate dollars.

Janelle Jolley  34:36  

Doreen  34:36  
And if you're not even thinking, like Biden not even socialism, you gonna veto? Bitch get out.

Janelle Jolley  34:43  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  34:44  
Let's put somebody else in who's even gonna shape their mind. Because tell me you know, it won't be easy. It's gonna cost a lot. But how are we going to do it?

Janelle Jolley  34:52  
That's right. We need to build sustainable community to talk about the spoils, the benefit of socialism nationwide, so that it's not something that we're trying to get people to understand or beat into them the year before an election. We need to- we need to get people to understand every day what it is that we think that is a benefit.

Doreen  35:22  
So what we're asking is this. And if they label it socialism, it's like, "Really? Do you think that's what socialism is?" You're just asking for health care, you're asking for shelter, like equal pay? Are you asking know? So it's like, when they label it socialism, you're already familiar.

Janelle Jolley  35:40  
That's right. And it's not freaking you out.

Doreen  35:41  
Yeah. So it's like, "Really? Are you afraid of what that word is?"

Janelle Jolley  35:45  
That's right.

Doreen  35:46  
Because you just told me you'd like your grandchildren to have education.

Janelle Jolley  35:50  
That's right.

Doreen  35:50  
You'd like them- so what are you afraid of, again?

Janelle Jolley  35:54  
That's right. Hmm. I see what you're saying. That's fair. What does that look like, and how can I be a part of that? And so one of the things for me, personally, is, you know, being- joining, you know, SF Berniecrats and, you know, the other lefty, political, formal political organizations in the city. But beyond that, it's like, how do I think about scaling that, or being a part of the effort to support the scaling of that in, not just California, but, you know, nationwide? And I-

Doreen  36:39  
It's a commitment.

Janelle Jolley  36:41  
It's a commitment. That's right. But we have- but I think we have to be committed to it.

Doreen  36:46  
And that's what I want to start in Vallejo, is turn my little cottage into a Saturday get together. And so you start- my role will be bring your kids to dance. Because, you know, when kids wake up early on a Saturday morning, and one of the two of the parents, like, I'm just imagining you have two parent families. You have to entertain the baby, but you're tired.

Janelle Jolley  37:18  

Doreen  37:19  
And so if you bring them to a dance thing, the child will dance, you can sip your coffee and just chill.

Janelle Jolley  37:26  

Doreen  37:27  
Or you could dance with your child.

Janelle Jolley  37:28  

Doreen  37:29  
And so what happens is, then you getting something from that hour.

Janelle Jolley  37:35  

Doreen  37:37  
And then you start to say, "Hmm. What are they gaining? Nothing?" I'm not gaining anything.

Janelle Jolley  37:46  
That's right.

Doreen  37:47  
You're gaining by your child being entertained.

Janelle Jolley  37:49  

Doreen  37:50  
And then so if you have something to say, then it's like, "Hmm." And then you just work on hearts and minds.

Janelle Jolley  38:00  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Doreen  38:01  
And then literally grow it.

Janelle Jolley  38:03  

Doreen  38:06  
Because parents need help, man.

Janelle Jolley  38:09  
That's right.

Doreen  38:11  
I'm unafraid to get help.

Janelle Jolley  38:13  
Huh. Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Doreen  38:15  
And once you give people an opportunity to feel safe, or they feel like, "Oh, I can give too."

Janelle Jolley  38:26  

Doreen  38:27  
So then now you have an opportunity to give.

Janelle Jolley  38:29  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  38:31  
And the society we live in, like, just wants you to take.

Janelle Jolley  38:36  

Doreen  38:36  
And then if you're the giver, they think you're weak.

Janelle Jolley  38:43  

Doreen  38:44  
And so it's giving people an opportunity to say, "No," you know, "Giving is not weak."

Janelle Jolley  38:51  
That's right.

Doreen  38:52  
It's building.

Janelle Jolley  38:53  
That's right.

Doreen  38:53  

Janelle Jolley  38:54  
That's right.  

Doreen  38:55  
You cannot stop.

Janelle Jolley  38:58  
That's right.

Doreen  38:58  
You cannot stop what we believe that Bernie is doing. But we stop.

Janelle Jolley  39:04  
That's right. We cannot.  

Doreen  39:05  
And then we lose momentum, and then we have to start again. And all these people all these years have been feeling like *gasp* It's like, *exhale*

Janelle Jolley  39:16  

Doreen  39:18  
But we cannot stop working.

Janelle Jolley  39:20  
That's right. We owe it to every- we owe it to ourselves, we owe it to everyone else.

Doreen  39:26  

Janelle Jolley  39:27  
Yeah, that's right.

Doreen  39:28  
Because in doing- in standing up, every opportunity we get we...we're building.

Janelle Jolley  39:37  
That's right.

Doreen  39:38  
Because it's an opportunity.

Janelle Jolley  39:41  

Doreen  39:42  
I can't stand it when we have to wait four years.

Janelle Jolley  39:45  
Because we don't have- people are dying in those four years, you know what I mean?

Doreen  39:49  
I know.

Janelle Jolley  39:50  
We don't have time!

Doreen  39:51  
Girl, I worked for 2016 and it's like, I was so like, "Wow. Really? It just ends?"

Janelle Jolley  40:01  
Right. Right.

Doreen  40:02  
And then when it picked up again, and I'm like, "Okay, I'm in!" But it's like we wasted opportunities.

Janelle Jolley  40:08  
That's right. That's right.

Doreen  40:09  
And that's... but then, you never know you will be grooming our future leader.

Janelle Jolley  40:19  

Doreen  40:20  
And I think it's important.

Janelle Jolley  40:22  

Doreen  40:23  
I know I would have been in my young days.

Janelle Jolley  40:26  

Doreen  40:26  
And so I feel very strongly that in doing so you'll find somebody.

Janelle Jolley  40:31  
That's right.

Doreen  40:33  
Cuz it shouldn't be about Bernie, it's about the platform.

Janelle Jolley  40:36  

Doreen  40:37  
Yeah. So I hope we can do something with this?

Janelle Jolley  40:44  
I think we will.

Doreen  40:45  
Because I'm unafraid.

Janelle Jolley  40:47  
That's right.  

Doreen  40:47  
I'm unafraid. Because when you see that clearly, it's not about Bernie.

Janelle Jolley  40:52  
That's right.

Doreen  40:53  
And it's not about any one person.

Janelle Jolley  40:55  

Doreen  40:55  
It's about our whole community of what they're looking for.

Janelle Jolley  41:00  
That's it.  

Doreen  41:01  
I mean...

Janelle Jolley  41:02  
Hmm. I'm into it, listen.

Doreen  41:03  
That's why, if it wasn't for COVID, we would have had several meetings even after Bernie.

Janelle Jolley  41:12  
That's right.

Doreen  41:13  
We have to. It's a duty.

Janelle Jolley  41:15  
Right. Because now we know better. And because we know better, there's no going back. We have to do better. And because we have to do better, we will. And we have- and, you know, maybe we don't know what that looks like. But we do know we have each other. You know, we do know that we are we are committed to the same things.

Doreen  41:36  
Janelle, we don't know what it'll look like, but one step will lead to the next.

Janelle Jolley  41:40  
That's right. Listen!

Doreen  41:42  
I always tell people, "Eh, it's okay to make mistakes. It just means you know which step to make next."

Janelle Jolley  41:48  
That's right. That's it. But- and what I said to- what I've said 800 times now, it's like, I don't know exactly what it will look like, but I do...but I kind of do. Because I saw it. I saw it during the primary campaign. I saw it, I smelled it, I touched it, I tasted it. It was not a- I did not imagine this. It was regular working people, you and me. You know, you are a care worker. I was- I'm...I was and am, you know, kind of...I'm kind of figuring it out, you know, tech worker, or whatever. But, you know, all those people we came in touch with, working people, not not anyone who was doing this to be cute. But, you know, I remember one of the gentlemen who came to one of the canvases that you and I hosted was- oh, I can't remember what he did. But I know that hard partially what he did was, like, he was a...he was like a drag performer, but he had to stop drag performing because he had some, like, surgery or some health problem? And he couldn't really afford to, like... something. And I would know his face if I saw it.

Doreen  42:58  

Janelle Jolley  42:58  
And I might have his face on a picture, or whatever. But it's just regular working people understanding the stakes, understanding what they have to benefit.

Doreen  43:08  

Janelle Jolley  43:08  
And understanding that if I put- if I apply my time and talents and/or money, we will, I will be able to inhabit a future that...fill in the blank.

Doreen  43:25  

Janelle Jolley  43:26  
So it's like, I know it's possible, because I experienced it. I saw it with you. I saw- I experienced most of that in this house. I saw it, I smelled, I tasted it, I touched it, I felt it. It was not- I did not imagine this. So I know that because I experienced it on a small- no, it wasn't a small scale! But I know that because I experienced it, I can experience it again in a different context. And that's what keeps me going. It's like, I know it's possible. And I know it's probably- not just because, in the context of the United States, but, you know, Bolivia just happened. You know, like, there are... there are struggles that go on across the globe, throughout time and space. So I know it's possible.

Doreen  44:13  
It is possible.

Janelle Jolley  44:14  
And I know that and I- but what I know is that it is only possible in community with one another. And we need to...we need to, you know, be assured of that, be committed to that, and be supportive of each other in that. But I know it's possible. I saw it. I experienced it in this house.

Doreen  44:38  

Janelle Jolley  44:39  

Doreen  44:40  

Janelle Jolley  44:40  
I would not be doing what I'm doing right now had this house, had your commitment to having this home be something that was for a communal benefit. I know it!

Doreen  44:53  

Janelle Jolley  45:02  
I'm starting to pick up on a theme here. Hmm. You hear it over and over again from various guests in one form or another: community building, relationship building, getting to know your neighbors, etc. Just something for us all to think more deeply about. Anyway, I'd love it if you would subscribe and share, you know, sing our praises. Anyway, see you next week on What's Left To Do.

Janelle Jolley  3:00  
After you decided, or after you learned, that you being an outspoken youth activist, or civil servant had gotten you into trouble, tell me: A. How you understood things. Like, how you understood the world politically. And then, what was your understanding of what your purpose was politically at that point?

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