Part 1 Episode Notes

Alvin lets Janelle get all up in his business, barely touching politics or ideology. He will be back on in the new year after he's done his homework (in part 2). Or so he says...

Part 2 Episode Notes

Part 2 of my convo with Alvin. Apologies in advance for his confusing taste in politicians he finds attractive :-(

Disclaimer: He has done his homework and has agreed to be back on in the new year to talk about how he thinks about this current political moment, and possible next steps.

Part 1 Transcript

Janelle Jolley  0:22  
Hello, and welcome. I'm your host Janelle, and this is What's Left To Do. Episode Two is with my man Alvin. And this interview is further proof that I need to learn how to mind my damn business. In part one, I really pry and Alvin let's us in on some very personal aspects of his life that I had no clue about. This interview was also further proof that I still don't know what the hell I'm doing. At one point, the recording device turns off and I didn't know it. So when you hear me kind of bust in and break down the fourth wall or whatever to fill in what we discussed, that's what's happening. Please bear with me as you enjoy part one. Okay, and we are recording. So, welcome to the second episode of What's Left To Do. My esteemed guest this week. None other than my boss, your boss, Alvin Lee. Let me tell you about Alvin. The motto here is No Comrade Left Behind. He has the patience of Job. Did he ever once cuss me out for sending him 5 million different times that same GIF of Ilana Glazer saluting as a meme when I was taking direction from him via text? He did not. Does he make sure- will he talk to you like you're an adult even if you are being slow about what he's asking you to do until you get it? He will. Because he's a gem. He's a treasure. He's a comedian, but he doesn't joke about a leftist politic. Welcome, Alvin. Say hi to the people.

Alvin  2:25  
Hello, everybody. Thanks for having me here. It's an honor to be the second guest. This is really cool.

Janelle Jolley  2:35  
Thank you. Thank you for coming. Two COVID tests later and we are here. How have you been?

Alvin  2:39  
I've been okay.

Janelle Jolley  2:43  
Okay. Tell me-

Alvin  2:43  
I was- you know, the election was last- was it last week or two weeks ago? A week and a half ago? I don't even know. But I just come from- I came from a losing campaign. So it was really heartbreaking. But it's, you know, it's- that's what happens.

Janelle Jolley  3:00  

Alvin  3:01  
And you take the time to heal and you take the time to

Janelle Jolley  3:04  
And, god damn my man, this is two in a year! That's like a-

Alvin  3:07  
Two in a year. Yeah, it's actually really upsetting.

Janelle Jolley  3:13  
Actually, makes me want to cry and stay in bed all day.

Alvin  3:17  
Yeah, it makes me want to quit politics, but-

Janelle Jolley  3:20  
We're not gonna do that.

Alvin  3:21  
We're not gonna do that. Exactly. We're gonna keep going. We're gonna keep fighting.

Janelle Jolley  3:24  
That's correct.

Alvin  3:25  

Janelle Jolley  3:25  
That's not an option. We are going- because I'm dying to- we're going to get to the current moment. Your work with the Sanders campaign where I met you, and then you work with the Avalos campaign. You just wrapped up.

Alvin  3:39  

Janelle Jolley  3:39  
We'll get there because I am dying to hear what you have to say about both of them.

Alvin  3:43  
Oh, okay. I have a lot to say about them.

Janelle Jolley  3:45  
Yeah. We gon' get into that tea. But we're going to take a moment back. Take a moment. Jesus.

Alvin  3:55  
Wait, before you do, though.

Janelle Jolley  3:57  

Alvin  3:57  
Can I ask you, did you think of that intro just now on the spot? Or did you write it beforehand?

Janelle Jolley  4:03  
70% of it was just off the dome.

Alvin  4:06  
I love it.

Janelle Jolley  4:06  
Thank you. That is- I have to bust everybody's balls on intro, so that's- I was thinking about like, "What am I gonna say about Alvin? The fact that I annoyed the shit out of him-"

Alvin  4:16  
You did not, though. And I do love that gif. And I associate that gif with you.

Janelle Jolley  4:22  
Cuz I sent it to you 500 times, Alvin!

Alvin  4:24  
But I love it. I love it.

Janelle Jolley  4:26  
Oh my god.

Alvin  4:27  
Who is she? Ila-

Janelle Jolley  4:28  
Ilana Glazer. She's a-

Alvin  4:30  
There we go.

Janelle Jolley  4:30  
The actress, the other actress on Broad City.

Alvin  4:33  
That's right. There we go. I've actually never seen Broad City but I love that gif.

Janelle Jolley  4:37  

Alvin  4:37  
No, I haven't. But I should. I was told that it's a really good show.  

Janelle Jolley  4:40  
Yeah, it's funny. I think you'd like it. I mean, it's- she's part of my spirit animal cuz she doesn't have good sense and neither do I. So, I identify very closely.

Alvin  4:51  
I need to watch this. I need to watch it. I mean, I have the time now.

Janelle Jolley  4:54  
Yeah, there we go.

Alvin  4:54  
I'm unemployed now, great.

Janelle Jolley  4:56  
Listen! Right. You ain't got no job. Settle down. Take a look.

Alvin  5:01  

Janelle Jolley  5:03  
You're so silly. Let's go back to the beginning. You were born on a sunny day to smiling parents in Southern California. Tell me about how you-

Alvin  5:12  
Oh my god. You knew I was born in California?

Janelle Jolley  5:18  
Yes, how- ? I know, I mean, I know that much about you.

Alvin  5:21  
How did you know that?

Janelle Jolley  5:22  
You told me!

Alvin  5:23  
Oh, did I?

Janelle Jolley  5:23  
Yes! I'm like, how the fuck else would I know that?

Alvin  5:26  
I will just say before I start telling you my life story that I'm really nervous for this podcast. I don't know why. I've been on so- I told you, I'm a comedian, all my comedy friends have podcasts. It's really sad. And I've been on their podcast so much and I feel like I'm never nervous for that, but I'm nervous for this one.

Janelle Jolley  5:44  

Alvin  5:45  
Cuz it's different. I don't know.

Janelle Jolley  5:48  
It's just me!

Alvin  5:48  
But, I know. Alright, but I'll ease into. I'll be a little less nervous. I was born in California, you are right. I don't remember when I told you this but I I suppose I did.

Janelle Jolley  6:01  
When did you tell me this? I think this was in the- I think this was right before you were leaving for New York and at that goodbye dinner that turned into a welcome the fuck back dinner because you were back four days later. Cuz that was right before-

Alvin  6:17  
That's another story. That's crazy.

Janelle Jolley  6:20  
Remember, I cussed you out because you decided to be a fool. You were like, leaving for New York-

Alvin  6:25  

Janelle Jolley  6:25  
You were leaving for New York on like a Friday.

Alvin  6:27  

Janelle Jolley  6:27  
And you were gonna, like fly back from New York to California Saturday evening to do a show and then head back out early Sunday mor-

Alvin  6:35  

Janelle Jolley  6:36  
And I was like, "Are you high?"

Alvin  6:37  
It's stupid. And I- but you know what? It worked out because I had to be back anyway.

Janelle Jolley  6:41  
Yeah, that's right. You had to- right. Right. Corona said, "Bring yo ass back-"

Alvin  6:45  
Uh huh.

Janelle Jolley  6:46  
Saddown somewhere.

Alvin  6:46  
I remember you were at my farewell dinner. It was so traumatic. It was I was going for like, what, three, four months?

Janelle Jolley  6:53  

Alvin  6:54  
And I made sure all my friends came to this dinner and like-

Janelle Jolley  6:57  
I was honored.  

Alvin  6:57  
Say goodbye to everybody. And then I came back two days later.

Janelle Jolley  7:00  
Yeah, that's right. You had just turned right the fuck back around. I was such a wild- like, just even- like all of this was this calendar year. It's wild to consider.

Alvin  7:12  
That felt like years ago.

Janelle Jolley  7:13  
It feels like a decade ago!

Alvin  7:16  
Janelle, I feel like I've known you for a long time.

Janelle Jolley  7:18  
Yeah, that's right.

Alvin  7:19  
It really does. But I met you this year, right?

Janelle Jolley  7:22  
No, I think, I think-

Alvin  7:23  
Was it the end of last year?

Janelle Jolley  7:24  
I think I met you end of last year. Like, around this time, 2019. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin  7:28  
Oh my god. And here we are.

Janelle Jolley  7:30  
Don't say like that! Say it like it was a joy. I feel like I've known you forever.

Alvin  7:35  
It's been really hard knowing you. I'm just kidding.

Janelle Jolley  7:38  
Wow, we're gonna cut this short. And, that's that for episode two.

Alvin  7:43  
Alright, goodbye. It was nice being on your show.  

Janelle Jolley  7:46  
It was cool. Get the fuck out. I'm just joking. Yeah, it has- it, I mean- yeah, it does feel like I've known all of you. And I'm gonna be interviewing more than just people that I bawl to. You know, I have brains outside of the campaign that are leftist-

Alvin  8:01  
Do you?

Janelle Jolley  8:02  
Not a ton. Like, some. But it does feel like I've known you guys forever. Like, in the trenches, just-

Alvin  8:09  
Yeah. I feel like we fought a battle together. We-

Janelle Jolley  8:12  
Whoa! Because we did. Yeah, uh-huh. So, what the fuck were we talking- see, this is just-

Alvin  8:21  
We were talking about when I was born.

Janelle Jolley  8:23  
That's right. You know what? And if it is something you don't want to talk about-

Alvin  8:26  
Oh, I can talk about my birth. It's not a hard topic for me to discuss.

Janelle Jolley  8:31  
Tell me how you grew up. What was life like for young Alvin?

Alvin  8:34  
I was born in California. But then I did move to Taiwan almost immediately. I think part of that was because my parents wanted me to be a US citizen. And they didn't want me to- because if you're born in Taiwan, and if you're assigned male at birth, you have to serve in the military for a few years.

Janelle Jolley  8:54  
Ahh, conscription. Or, conscription or consignment. What is the word for that?

Alvin  8:57  
I don't know what any of those words mean.

Janelle Jolley  8:59  
Oops, okay.

Alvin  9:00  
What does that mean?

Janelle Jolley  9:01  
I think conscription is like you- it's like you are automatically tapped for military service at a certain age. I think conscription is the word for that.

Alvin  9:10  
Oh, okay. Yeah, I think-

Janelle Jolley  9:12  
He goes, "I don't know."

Alvin  9:12  
I don't know. I didn't know there were actual words for it. But I know that when you turn 18, or I think it's after you graduate high school? You have to serve in the military.

Janelle Jolley  9:22  
Like in Israel.

Alvin  9:23  
Oh, yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Janelle Jolley  9:25  
Everybody has to serve.

Alvin  9:25  
Yeah. My uncles did it, my grandpa did it. And so I think my parents didn't want me to serve. And so they had me here. And yeah, moved to Taiwan. And then I came back, I think third or fourth grade. And yeah, sort of just-

Janelle Jolley  9:45  

Alvin  9:45  

Janelle Jolley  9:45  
Okay. So they were living here and they were here and decided to have have their children born here before going back? Or they were just like, "Yo, in 9 months we're going to take a flight and be in California for a hot second so our kids can-"

Alvin  9:47  
So I know my mom was here on vacation. She had just graduated college in Taiwan. And she studied Spanish. And she came to the US for, sort of, I think, and I might, I might be wrong. I think that's what they told me. She was on vacation, sort of congratulating herself for graduating college. She met my dad here.

Janelle Jolley  10:26  
That's right. gave him the look.

Alvin  10:28  

Janelle Jolley  10:28  
From across the room like, "Tuh! You know you want it."

Alvin  10:30  
And had me. Exactly. There we go.

Janelle Jolley  10:35  
That's an inferred guess.

Alvin  10:36  
I know she-

Janelle Jolley  10:36  
I'm sorry.

Alvin  10:38  
No, it's fine. It is fine. I know she called my grandparents, her parents, and was like, "Oh, I'm gonna get married tomorrow," or something. And I know they were pissed.

Janelle Jolley  10:48  
But it was like, it was a Wednesday and she was like, "Hey, actually, I done found my dude."

Alvin  10:53  
Mm-hmm. Oh, that's what my grandparents told me. My mom actually didn't tell me this part. But they were annoyed with her. They're like, "You're just gonna get hitched?" I know they got married in Vegas. And-

Janelle Jolley  11:04  
Was he- is your dad Taiwanese, as well?

Alvin  11:06  
My dad is Taiwanese and Japanese.

Janelle Jolley  11:09  

Alvin  11:09  
But he moved here when he was, I think in grade school.

Janelle Jolley  11:14  
Oh, gotcha.

Alvin  11:15  

Janelle Jolley  11:15  
Okay. Interesting. So, mama was here living la vida loca after graduating uni.

Alvin  11:23  

Janelle Jolley  11:23  
She saw your daddy.

Alvin  11:24  

Janelle Jolley  11:25  
Set that thang out and just like, "Okay, this what we doing. This who I'm wit. Pladow."

Alvin  11:32  
And it worked out.

Janelle Jolley  11:33  
And her parents not super excited about it.

Alvin  11:35  
Not super excited. No, no, no.

Janelle Jolley  11:37  
Gotcha. Okay. But they got together in southern Cali-

Alvin  11:42  
I don't know if it's Southern Cali. I think- yeah, I think

Janelle Jolley  11:45  
Or they met in Vegas?

Alvin  11:46  
I don't know it's unclear

Janelle Jolley  11:48  
Alvin, how you don't know about your parents love story?

Alvin  11:50  
Cuz I don't think they like to tell the story.

Janelle Jolley  11:52  

Alvin  11:55  
They're very religious now and they're very like- they're not conservative, but they're very like- I don't think they- I think they sort of tell the story with a little shame.

Janelle Jolley  12:05  
Oh. I got you.

Alvin  12:07  
But it worked out and they ended up having- they had me and then they had five more kids. So they have-

Janelle Jolley  12:12  
You're one of six?

Alvin  12:12  
They have six kids. Yeah. Oldest of six, too.  

Janelle Jolley  12:15  
My stars.

Alvin  12:15  
Which I think people are surprised about because they don't- I don't think people get the oldest child vibe from me.

Janelle Jolley  12:21  

Alvin  12:22  
Right? But we're all close in age and we-

Janelle Jolley  12:26  
Like stair steps?

Alvin  12:28  
Yeah, I think we're all a year apart.

Janelle Jolley  12:30  
Your mama was busy.

Alvin  12:31  

Janelle Jolley  12:32  

Alvin  12:33  

Janelle Jolley  12:33  
Okay. Question, though- and I ask because I have- it's very- I find it very fascinating. I have some American friends of Chinese parentage. So, were your mama's people the capitalists who fled the mainland?

Alvin  12:51  
Yes, yes. My grandpa actually has told me harrowing stories of how his mom- I mean, it's so interesting talking to him. He left on a boat and they all thought they were gonna die before they reach Taiwan. They made it. But not everyone in his family made it. And they- yeah, it just seemed like it was- I just can't believe it was only two generations away from me, that they were experiencing all this, the war and everything.

Janelle Jolley  13:19  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin  13:20  

Janelle Jolley  13:21  
Were they super not excited about your dad because he was half Japanese?

Alvin  13:24  

Janelle Jolley  13:25  
That's beef! I know that.

Alvin  13:25  

Janelle Jolley  13:26  
Cuz I, like I said, my Chinese American friends-

Alvin  13:31  

Janelle Jolley  13:32  
And I'm like, "Oh!"

Alvin  13:33  

Janelle Jolley  13:34  
Whoa.So they were super not pleased about that.

Alvin  13:37  
I think- yes, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  13:40  
Oh, that's interesting.

Alvin  13:41  
But it's-

Janelle Jolley  13:42  
Do you- and this is already too early of a sidebar. Was your family's kind of view of- did you understand: A. Did you fully understand what they went through and the, kind of, all of the dynamics of the revolution from- mm, no, that's a leading question. How did you understand- that's a better question- how did you understand the history of your grandparents fleeing the mainland for Taiwan as a child? Or was it just kind of like, "There goes grandpa telling that crazy boat story again."

Alvin  14:22  
You know, I don't think I still fully understood all the history behind it and all of the experiences that my family went through. And late- my grandpa, my grandparents actually didn't really talk about it until I asked them when I was in- I think in college was when I was starting to get curious about these things?

Janelle Jolley  14:45  
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alvin  14:46  
I don't know why but I think it's a lot of just from older generation, they don't like to talk about-

Janelle Jolley  14:52  
Yeah, they don't.

Alvin  14:54  
The suffering the went through.  

Janelle Jolley  14:54  
That's everybody. Chinese elders, that's everybody.  

Alvin  14:55  
Yeah. And it really took me prying and wanted to really learn about my family history. Before, you know, my grandparents get any older and pass, I wanted to, you know, get as much as possible from them. And I don't think I still have the full picture. But, I don't know, it's just it's really interesting. And I hope to get to know more, learn more.

Janelle Jolley  15:20  
So you're still trying to like-

Alvin  15:21  
I'm still learning. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  15:23  
Whoa. Your mom doesn't tell you, kind of like secondhand, her understanding?

Alvin  15:27  
You know what my- I don't speak with my parents that much anymore. I'm very, very, very close with my grandparents. Because they essentially raised me. But my grandparents, I'm sure they would be ha- not happy- but I'm sure they would talk about it if I continue asking them and pestering them.

Janelle Jolley  15:46  

Alvin  15:47  
But it's not something that they just freely will talk about at dinner.

Janelle Jolley  15:51  
Sure, sure.

Alvin  15:52  

Janelle Jolley  15:53  
So your grandparents raised you in Taiwan, or here?

Alvin  15:56  
In Taiwan.

Janelle Jolley  15:57  
So your parents stayed here-

Alvin  15:58  
My parents stayed here.

Janelle Jolley  15:59  
And they sent all the kids back-

Alvin  15:59  
And probably because my- one of my sister was very, very ill at one point, and so I was sent to Taiwan. And I actually, don't resent that at all. I love my grandparents and I'm so glad I got that experience of living in Taiwan. I did move back when I was in third grade. but then I was going back and forth a lot.

Janelle Jolley  16:01  

Alvin  16:09  

Janelle Jolley  16:14  
What was that like? Was it just you or some of your other siblings who were going back and forth?

Alvin  16:24  
Just me. Yeah. And I'm actually not sure why, but I think it's because I had such a bond with my grandparents that they wanted me to go back. And I was actually very excited to go back. I loved going back.

Janelle Jolley  16:36  

Alvin  16:36  
Because I didn't know- when I moved here, I didn't speak a word of English. It was really hard for me to go to school and everything. So I was going back a lot to-

Janelle Jolley  16:45  
So you were born here.

Alvin  16:47  

Janelle Jolley  16:48  
You left at what age? The first time.

Alvin  16:51  
I think like one or two.

Janelle Jolley  16:52  
Oh, you were little little.

Alvin  16:53  

Janelle Jolley  16:54  
While your other siblings were being born-

Alvin  16:55  
I don't even remember. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  16:56  
They sent you back to be with- what do you call your grandparents?

Alvin  16:59  
My a gung and my a ma.

Janelle Jolley  17:01  
A gung, a ma?

Alvin  17:02  

Janelle Jolley  17:03  
I probably messed up so bad and I'm so sorry.

Alvin  17:06  
No worries. My grandparents.

Janelle Jolley  17:07  
Your grandparents.

Alvin  17:08  

Janelle Jolley  17:08  
But, so you were there. The only sibling-

Alvin  17:11  

Janelle Jolley  17:12  
-that was over there. But then you came back at, what age? For the first time.

Alvin  17:16  
I was going back and forth for a little bit.

Janelle Jolley  17:19  
But like, constantly.

Alvin  17:20  
Constantly. But I think third grade was when I was like, "Hey-" was when my parent was like, "He needs to finish off school here, at least from, you know, September to June. And then he can go back for the summer."

Janelle Jolley  17:20  
I see.

Alvin  17:21  

Janelle Jolley  17:21  
But you're saying when they when you started to be enrolled in school here, you were still speaking Cantonese? Mandarin?

Alvin  17:39  
Mandarin and Taiwanese.

Janelle Jolley  17:40  
Oh, okay.

Alvin  17:41  
Yeah. So I was not comfortable speaking in English. I was in ESL and I had to really learn. And I feel like back- well, not back in the day- it's like, even now I feel like kids are brutal. If you don't- if you can't speak English, you know, people make fun of you based on your accent. So it was hard for me growing up here. And I've always just, I- even growing up, I was like, "I wish I could have just stayed in Taiwan this whole time. I want to live my life out in Taiwan." In retrospect, I'm glad I got to learn English and got, you know, the education I got here. But when I was younger, I really resented being here.

Janelle Jolley  18:17  
What is- what are some of your earliest, fondest memories of living in Taiwan? Do you remember?

Alvin  18:22  
Oh, I do. And I think that's where I will- yeah, my fondest memories are all in Taiwan those were the best days of my life.

Janelle Jolley  18:31  
Mm, why do you say that?

Alvin  18:33  
I grew up with two of the most loving grandparents ever. They were doting, they were- they would give me the world. And I also was- I also grew up in the same household with all my aunts and uncles, in Taiwan. Or, I imagine in a lot of cultures, you all live under one roof. And it was- it just felt like I was the center of the world. I was the only kid with all these uncles and aunts who weren't married then. Yeah, they were all- my mom was the oldest, so she had a lot of younger siblings. She was one of five. And I was just, you know-

Janelle Jolley  19:05  
The light of everybody's life.

Alvin  19:06  
I was the apple of their eye. They loved me. And they still love me and I love them very much. So, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  19:14  
Oh, right on. So, is- was it- with the contrast, would you say, between the two environments would be, like very communal loving, warmth that you experienced when you would go back to Taiwan and was it the opposite of that in America when you would come back, or?

Alvin  19:33  
In a certain way, yeah. And also great questions, Janelle. I feel like I'm actually very much being interviewed. I love this. Yeah, cuz I was- growing up here I was one of six kids with two parents who were so swamped and so busy. And my- ans in Taiwan  obviously I was the only child, I didn't have- my aunts and uncles didn't have kids then, so I didn't have cousins back then. And I- we were definitely wealthier in Taiwan, too. So it's- there was a very clear- and I think because of this experience, I had a very clear sense of the divide between, I don't want to say poor and rich, because I don't think we were very rich in Taiwan. But it was- I had- I didn't have to worry about money when I was in Taiwan.

Janelle Jolley  20:28  
As a child, how was it that you understood the position of your family? Do you remember clearly having a semblance of, kind of, class standing in Taiwan? Or is it just in retrospect, now?

Alvin  20:44  
No, I think I understood it, I mean, as much as I could back then, because the experiences were so different. Just from-

Janelle Jolley  20:53  
Tell me what you mean.

Alvin  20:54  
My experiences in the US and in Taiwan were so different. I remember being the US, my parents- and also my mom and dad aren't very shy about- I think some parents shield their kids from knowing if there are financial struggles and whatnot. My parents were not like that. They made sure we knew we were poor. They made sure we knew, you know, "Daddy doesn't make this much money and we can't buy you this, this, and that." And in retrospect, I feel like they should have mayben tried to shield us at a young age and made sure that, you know-

Janelle Jolley  21:32  
Do you think they threw it in your face?

Alvin  21:33  
-we weren't lacking. A little bit.

Janelle Jolley  21:36  
Wow, okay.

Alvin  21:36  
But I think it's just their way of parenting. I don't think it's- I don't think they did it maliciously. They weren't trying to like harm us.

Janelle Jolley  21:42  
But it was like, "Damn, I know you got his hours cut this week. What the fuck you want me to do?" Like, "Why are you telling me this shit?"

Alvin  21:46  
Yeah, exactly. Like, they would complain to us about their financial struggle. And I was a kid. I'm like, "What? What, you want me to go-

Janelle Jolley  21:51  
What do you want me to do?

Alvin  21:52  
-mow a lawn?" What do you want me to do? I can't do anything.

Janelle Jolley  21:57  
Right, right, right.

Alvin  21:57  
I can't even tie my shoes yet. Whereas, in Taiwan I was, you know, I got anything I wanted. So, I was very spoiled in Taiwan. And so, I think because it was such a difference I at least understood that, you know, "Oh, we're poor here and we're rich here."

Janelle Jolley  22:17  
What did your parents do here?

Alvin  22:19  
My- unclear. My mom was always a housewife because she, I mean, she-

Janelle Jolley  22:25  
She was pregnant!

Alvin  22:25  
She was raising 6 kids, yeah. So she never had the time to work. My dad worked for, like a tech company? Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  22:34  
Do you know what he was doing?

Alvin  22:35  

Janelle Jolley  22:36  

Alvin  22:39  
Not sure. I- yeah, I don't know.

Janelle Jolley  22:43  
Okay. All right.

Alvin  22:43  

Janelle Jolley  22:44  
Huh. But you were keenly aware of money being a focus of your parents in terms of like, "What we can do now because we have it or what we can't really do now because things are tight, or we don't have it."

Alvin  22:59  
Yeah, much more aware than I think any kid should be. But I was, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  23:04  
I see. Did that make you anxious about money as a kid?

Alvin  23:06  
Yes! And I think a lot of how I spend my money nowadays is very indicative of that experience growing up. I think.

Janelle Jolley  23:15  
Tell me what you mean by that. Paint a picture for me.

Alvin  23:17  

Janelle Jolley  23:19  
Listen, you can tell me if I go- I don't need to be all up in your business.

Alvin  23:21  
No, no, no. You can throw anything at me. I think i'm actually not very good with money.

Janelle Jolley  23:31  
What do you mean when you say that?

Alvin  23:33  
I think I am at a place where I'm very fortunate enough to make- I make more money nowadays- I mean, right now I'm unemployed, but when I'm working- than my dad, I think ever hoped to? And I don't know how to really reconcile my upbringing with what I can and can't afford now. I don't know. I don't know where I'm going with this. But I'm just not very good with money because I feel like I have to spend it right away. I'm not a big-

Janelle Jolley  24:15  
You're not- you- is- do you- hmm. Say more, go ahead.

Alvin  24:19  
I don't know. I'm also thinking out loud.

Janelle Jolley  24:22  
For sure.

Alvin  24:22  
I think I'm just not good with money. I'm very- I like to think I'm a very generous person. And I will also live, sort of, a little bit more lavishly than I maybe should? I definitely should be saving and be more conscious of, you know, retirement and things like that. But I- because I have money now, whereas I didn't when I was growing up in the US, I think I'm just like, "Oh, I need to spend it." And I need to live a happy life and not be frugal and not be so stingy with the money that my parents, maybe, I felt that my parents were with their finances and with their money? And I have this fantasy like, if I ever have kids, I would never make them worry about money. I would, you know, get them anything they wanted. I would make my kids have the life that I had in Taiwan. And it's not because I resent my parents, or I think they didn't raise me right. It's because I just had a much happier childhood in Taiwan than I did in the US. And I know it's not my parents fault at all. You know, my parents work hard. And so- I don't know where I'm going with that. Does that make- does that track at all?

Janelle Jolley  25:43  
Yeah, no, I think I understand what you're saying. I think you're saying as, either as a conscious or subconscious, maybe unconscious, response to the frugality of your parents and their focus on like, "Okay, we're gonna pinch pennies today so that we can, you know, do x or have x tomorrow." Like, you didn't enjoy that because you'd already gotten a look, a glimpse, of a grand life in Taiwan. And so now as an adult, because you make good money- you know, when you work, you're working in the tech industry so, and you're single, you know, things are pretty Gucci for you. That it's like, "Okay, I don't want to have the same view of the money that I make that my parents did, because I, you know, if I want to, you know, feel- I want to have the freedom to be able to spend what I want, how I want, right now. Because that's kind of what I got used to as a little tot in Taiwan and that is what feels better for me." Like, "I don't want to feel denied right now." I think that's what you're saying.

Alvin  26:58  
I like that.

Janelle Jolley  26:59  
Did that make sense?

Alvin  27:00  

Janelle Jolley  27:00  
Okay. All right.

Alvin  27:01  
You made what I said more concise and it made more sense.

Janelle Jolley  27:05  
No, no, no! No, I understood what you were saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  

Alvin  27:08  
It's like when I talk to my therapist and I word vomit at her. And she's like, "This is what you're trying to say." And I'm like,"Yeah! Exactly."

Janelle Jolley  27:14  
Okay. Would you perceive your siblings to be good with money, whereas your perception is of your own finances, is that you're, quote, bad with money?

Alvin  27:26  
You know what? I'm thinking of each of them right now and I think they are good with money. And I think they do save. You know, my sister actually has the same spending habit as I do. A little more careless. Or, one of my sister. But I think the rest are pretty good with their money. And I don't know where that stems from, or if that's just maybe our personality? Yeah. And I don't want your audience to think that I'm bad with money and that I'm- I mean, I do try to save and put money aside for retirement and everything like that, too. But, maybe not as good as I should be.

Janelle Jolley  28:03  
You don't penny- like, if you want that avocado toast, bitch, Imma get it.

Alvin  28:08  

Janelle Jolley  28:08  
Imma get it. Add guac to that burrito, bitch. Postmates cab- like, listen.

Alvin  28:15  

Janelle Jolley  28:15  
We gonna live, right?

Alvin  28:16  
We are gonna live. Yeah, we're gonna enjoy our time while we're alive.

Janelle Jolley  28:20  
Yeah. I get it. Okay. Right on. Would I recognize you as a child? Like, if your parents or your grandparents or your siblings were to describe you to me as a kid, would I recognize it? Would be like, "Oh yeah, that's Alvin. He been Alvin since-"

Alvin  28:34  
That's a fun question. I've never been asked that.

Janelle Jolley  28:37  
Were you hell on- were you a demon? You know what I'm saying? Like, were you com-

Alvin  28:37  
Am I a demon now?

Janelle Jolley  28:47  

Alvin  28:48  
I think a little bit of my essence is still there. It's still here.

Janelle Jolley  28:52  
What do you mean?

Alvin  28:53  
Like, how I was as a kid, I still have some of that as an adult. But I think I've changed as much as anybody should or would. When I was a kid, I was very, I don't know, I was also very different depending on where I was. Like, in Taiwan, I was a spoiled brat. But I think in the US, I was the oldest of six kids, I was- had to be a little bit more obedient and a little- I couldn't express myself that much because I was, at school anyways, because I didn't speak the language that well. And so I was very different. But I think- I don't know. I don't know, Janelle. I have to noodle on this a little more I-

Janelle Jolley  29:48  
Like, for instance-

Alvin  29:49  
Yes, okay. Yeah, let's let's break it down.

Janelle Jolley  29:51  
If you were to talk to my parents, my siblings, you know, my village, whatever, growing up, you'd be like, "Yeah, that's Janelle. She's been a fool from the giddy up."

Alvin  30:04  

Janelle Jolley  30:05  
Yes! I've always been me.

Alvin  30:07  
So, you're the- if I met you as a kid I would know who-

Janelle Jolley  30:07  
You'd be like, "Yep! That's Janelle."

Alvin  30:10  

Janelle Jolley  30:12  
That's Janelle. Crazy. Like, I was in preschool- you know they have little graduations for little babies at preschool- my preschool teachers, you know, they gave all the kids superlatives. Like, "Most likely to da da da." They voted me class clown.

Alvin  30:31  
Did they? Wait, in what gr- like, high school?

Janelle Jolley  30:35  
No, no, preschool.

Alvin  30:35  
Oh, preschool!  You were voted class clown in preschool? They have that in preschool?

Janelle Jolley  30:40  
They had it or they looked at me and were just like, "That's what she gonna get cuz she don't know how to act." But like, you would recognize me as a child. So would you- if I were to- if some- if your people were describing little Alvin to me, would I recognize him? Or were you solemn like a monk? Like, you never smiled or- you know what I mean? Like-

Alvin  30:59  
Yeah. I think I'm much happier now. And I think I was a little different when I was a kid. I don't think you will recognize me, actually. If I were to answer your question, no, I don't-

Janelle Jolley  31:10  
I wouldn't recognize American Alvin or I wouldn't recognize Taiwanese li'l Alvin?

Alvin  31:15  
I think either. Because I think I've changed quite a bit.

Janelle Jolley  31:20  
Becauseyou're more jokey? Like, how? Use your words.

Alvin  31:22  
I don't know! I know, use my words. I know! I think I've just, like I said, my essence is still there. I'm still that kid, fundamentally. But I'm a little bit more, maybe, extroverted now?

Janelle Jolley  31:37  
So, how- so you're from- when you came back and, you know, started more regularly living in the states, how would you describe that childhood? Did you- was it a very intensely close knit Chinese American community you grew up with? Like, so tradition was really big? Was it- did you guys like- what's the word I'm looking for? Not acculturate. But was there a big heavy emphasis on assimilation? Like, kind of paint that picture for me.

Alvin  32:14  
Yeah, I think my community growing up was very heavily revolved around the church I grew up in? My parents are very religious.

Janelle Jolley  32:25  
Like- ?

Alvin  32:25  
Religious Christian.

Janelle Jolley  32:26  
Oh, okay.

Alvin  32:28  
And, yeah, it was- every Sunday it was obviously service, but then there was also Friday Bible study and Wednesday this and that.  

Janelle Jolley  32:38  
Oh, so you grew up a church boy.

Alvin  32:39  
My church-  I mean, I didn't-  but my church did pray in tongues. What does that mean?

Janelle Jolley  32:44  
Oh, so yeah, a holiness church.  

Alvin  32:45  
The what?

Janelle Jolley  32:46  
Yeah, you grew up in a holiness church. Like, they like-

Alvin  32:48  
A holiness church?

Janelle Jolley  32:49  
Like that's not the name of it. See, you so un-churched.

Alvin  32:52  
I don't know. It was also a- it was also like a Chinese slash English church? But it was- the pastor, the head pastor's, preaching Chinese. So I think maybe that's why-

Janelle Jolley  33:03  
Was it Protestant?

Alvin  33:04  
A lot of my- I don't know a lot the language around it. Um, it is Protestant because we weren't Catholic.

Janelle Jolley  33:10  
No, no, no. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. I meant- that's not right.

Alvin  33:13  
Right? Some of your audience will be like, "This guy is so stupid."

Janelle Jolley  33:17  
No! No, no. Was it Pentecostal?

Alvin  33:19  
What does that mean?

Janelle Jolley  33:21  
That's one of the holiness denomin- like, we speak in tongues, you lay hands on people.

Alvin  33:24  
Yeah, yeah! They lay hands on people. There was-

Janelle Jolley  33:28  
Tambourines and snakes?

Alvin  33:30  
Ye- snakes?

Janelle Jolley  33:32  
I mean, that's an American kind of-  

Alvin  33:35  
There were, like, pray- laying hands and quote unquote healing and prophetic words, quote, unquote, being spoken. And tounges-

Janelle Jolley  33:45  
I didn't know Chinese people did that. I thought that was- because what you're describing sounds like Pentecostal or like COGIC, and I didn't know-

Alvin  33:51  
Oh. I don't know what Pentecostal or COGIC means, but-

Janelle Jolley  33:55  
They do all that-

Alvin  33:56  
Oh, okay.

Janelle Jolley  33:57  
Stuff you're describing. Like-

Alvin  33:57  
I think then we're that, then.

Janelle Jolley  34:00  
You might have to ask your mom because now I got to know and the people gonna want an answer.

Alvin  34:03  
People want- okay, I'm gonna have to call in to the next episode.

Janelle Jolley  34:08  
That's right.

Alvin  34:08  
To give some answers.

Janelle Jolley  34:09  
That's correct. Okay, but did you grow up- did you believe it?

Alvin  34:15  
I did. I mean, as a kid, if you're exposed to it every week, you-

Janelle Jolley  34:19  
You're gonna believe by proxy.

Alvin  34:20  

Janelle Jolley  34:20  
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're socialized-

Alvin  34:24  
I think right now if you were to ask me what I am, I would still say I'm a Christian. I do pray occasionally. But I don't- I don't know if I believe in the speaking in tongues and the more, I don't know what it would be called, the more spiritual aspects of it? The laying the hands, the healing and things like that.

Janelle Jolley  34:52  
Hey, it's me to fill in what didn't get recorded. Okay. Real quick. Alvin was telling me how he grew up in a religious community that was not politically active at all until the Prop 8 ballot proposition against gay marriage emerged as an issue. So, this was all happening for him in his late teens as he was starting to understand himself as queer. He said he remembered feeling extremely coerced into having to go to the rallies and demonstrations organized by the church because he didn't have a choice. All of his family members participated, all of his community participated. I think this event played a pivotal role in him no longer being so active in the church. Okay. Back to Alvin. I don't know what I'm doing. But what I was asking before I saw the damn thing wasn't recording was: Alvin, what- did you wrestle with your faith in the years after the Prop 8 thing? Because on the one hand, there was, you know, what the church and, you know, certain parts of society were saying about gay people. On the other hand, there was you coming into a genuine, you know, erotic knowledge of yourself that happens to like dudes. What was that kind of process of reconciliation like?

Alvin  36:23  
Hmm. I will tell the audience that I did sob, and I-

Janelle Jolley  36:29  
At the protests?

Alvin  36:30  
No! During our conversation, but it didn't get recorded.

Janelle Jolley  36:33  
Oh, oh.

Alvin  36:34  
So they missed out on all of that. I don't think it's a unique story. I think it's much like anyone who's grown up in a religious household and found out they were queer. I wrestled with it. I tried to pray the gay away.

Janelle Jolley  36:56  
Oh, whoa!

Alvin  36:56  
Try to pray for-

Janelle Jolley  36:57  
Did you think you could change? Or you thought you could-

Alvin  37:00  
I think deep down I knew I couldn't. Yeah, but I was like, "God, you know, make me straight." And it's so sad to say that out loud, but I did. But I luckily had a lot of friends who were understanding and a good support system outside of the church. Friends I made, you know, at school and friends I met just through life along the way. And, yeah, I can say now at 29 that I am comfortable in my own skin. And I love who I am. And I'm proud of who I've become. And I'm sad- I'm not really sad for me and my experience, I'm glad I went through it because it made me who I am. But I am really, really- I just have like a heart for kids who are going through it now. And I- kids who are growing up in households that don't validate who they are and try to change them. There's so many kids- and there's still a lot of states that allow conversion therapy and things like that. And it really breaks my heart. Yeah. I'm not sad for myself, but I want to hopefully help those folks out there that are going through that.

Janelle Jolley  38:18  
Can I ask you an inappropriate question?

Alvin  38:19  
Yeah, go for it.

Janelle Jolley  38:20  
Did you- when you- did you ever, as a hail mary to the hetero God, do you ever try and get busy with a girl? To see if you could do it?

Alvin  38:30  
I've never had like, full on sex with a girl.

Janelle Jolley  38:34  
Okay. Alright.

Alvin  38:35  
I've done things in the past with girls, but not- yeah. Yeah. Not fourth base, not a home- is fourth base or home run?

Janelle Jolley  38:45  
No, it's called home base not fourth base!

Alvin  38:48  
Home base. Fourth base?

Janelle Jolley  38:48  
That is letting me know-

Alvin  38:53  
That is why- that's how you know.  

Janelle Jolley  38:53  
Why you never got busy. Talking about some fourth base, Lord. Okay.

Alvin  38:59  
Fourth base. That's really ?

Janelle Jolley  39:06  
Oh, I love you so much. When it was time for you- you went to college? You went to Irvine, right?

Alvin  39:11  
I did. Oh, you really have a good memory! You remember where I was born and what school I- I'm very impressed. I forget where I was born and where I went to college, sometimes. But yeah, I did go to UC Irvine.

Janelle Jolley  39:21  
Did you- were your parents- were they encouraging of you to go to college?

Alvin  39:27  
I think in our household it was expected. There was never a question of whether or not I was going to college. You were going to college. And they wanted me to go to a college close by, and-

Janelle Jolley  39:40  

Alvin  39:41  
Because they're-

Janelle Jolley  39:42  
Because they're Chinese parents.

Alvin  39:43  
Yeah. And they wanted me to go home every weekend, but I didn't. And I was thrilled to be away from them and sort of starting to explore who I am and meet my own friends outside of, you know, church and the community I grew up in. And so, I actually had a really great college experience. I loved college and I-

Janelle Jolley  40:05  
What did you study in school?

Alvin  40:06  
I studied psychology because I thought maybe I would, you know, pursue that field. But now I know that's definitely not for me. I think even now, I still don't really know what I want to do, which is just sort of sad because I-

Janelle Jolley  40:20  
It's not sad.

Alvin  40:20  
It's a little too late for me to sort of be like, "Oh, I don't-"

Janelle Jolley  40:23  
No it's not! It's never too late. What are you saying? I'm doing a podcast at 34 and-

Alvin  40:30  
Oh! Are you 34?

Janelle Jolley  40:31  
And looking good.

Alvin  40:33  
You're looking really good.

Janelle Jolley  40:34  
I look really ridiculous right now. He's being very kind.

Alvin  40:38  
You look amazing.

Janelle Jolley  40:40  
No, it's never too late.

Alvin  40:41  
No, it's not. It's not, you're right.  

Janelle Jolley  40:42  
You didn't have a clear- you weren't one of those dweebs who, like the first day of  freshman orientation, you're like, "Oh, ohh, uh, err, mm. I'm gonna, der der do."

Alvin  40:53  
There's something wrong in the head with those people.

Janelle Jolley  40:55  
That's right.

Alvin  40:56  
Like, if you know at 18 what you're gonna do for the rest of your life? I'm like, "That's not- "

Janelle Jolley  41:00  
Your brain isn't even fully formed.

Alvin  41:01  
Like, what are you doing?

Janelle Jolley  41:02  
What are you doing?

Alvin  41:03  
Who's telling you to- that you have to do this or follow this path? I don't understand. No, I had no sense of what I was gonna do in college. Psychology was something I was exploring. But it's not my path.

Janelle Jolley  41:18  
Were you reckless in college? Or were you still kind of a buttoned up, good first son? Or did you start to loosen it? Like, "My momma ain't- she don't live in this dorm? We finna, you know, see what's going on in room 304 tonight."  You know what I mean?

Alvin  41:36  
I was reckless in college.

Janelle Jolley  41:39  

Alvin  41:39  
But you know what, Janelle? I was actually reckless starting junior year of high school.

Janelle Jolley  41:44  
Tell me what you mean by reckless.

Alvin  41:45  
I was drinking a lot in high school.

Janelle Jolley  41:49  
Why do you think you were drinking a lot?

Alvin  41:53  
Because I wanted to be cool, I think. And in high school being cool, not being cool, but being liked and accepted by everybody was very important to me.

Janelle Jolley  42:05  
Now, did you add to the recklessness in college, did you add drugs to the mix- you don't have to tell- you do not have to tell everyone.  

Alvin  42:12  
Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. I didn't do drugs in high school. I mean, I- the only thing I did in high school was smoke weed and drink.

Janelle Jolley  42:19  

Alvin  42:20  
But I didn't do drugs. In college I did.

Janelle Jolley  42:22  
What did what do we do in college?

Alvin  42:26  
Just like, I was- also I'm not doing heroin-

Janelle Jolley  42:28  
No, no, no.  

Alvin  42:29  
Yeah, just like coke and, like-

Janelle Jolley  42:32  
Everybody that I- not everybody- but most of my friends out here who grew up in California, went to school in Calif- like, everybody had a period of doing coke. I just-

Alvin  42:39  
Yeah. Oh, I- and I still really love it. Are you gonna tell me you have some?  

Janelle Jolley  42:49  
No! I do not have any, I'm sorry.

Alvin  42:49  
Wait, did I do coke in high school? No, I didn't.

Janelle Jolley  42:54  
It wasn't too- that wasn't an expensive habit for a college student?

Alvin  42:57  
I've never bought coke before.

Janelle Jolley  43:00  
Oh, you always- it's just like, it's there.

Alvin  43:02  
Yeah. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  43:04  
That makes sense.

Alvin  43:04  
Which is probably not that safe. Because it can be laced and things. But I've- have I ever? No, I've never spent my own money on it.

Janelle Jolley  43:12  
Cuz you a bad bitch. You ain't got to buy your own coke.

Alvin  43:15  
No. No, no, no, no. You meet people who have it.

Janelle Jolley  43:19  
That's right. Okay. It just like-

Alvin  43:22  

Janelle Jolley  43:22  
Is that all? Was that the hardest thing you ever- did you ever do Molly, shrooms?

Alvin  43:25  
Oh, yeah, yeah. Molly and acid. And-

Janelle Jolley  43:28  
Okay, can you tell me about your acid trip? How was it?

Alvin  43:33  
It was- I actually don't love it as much as coke-

Janelle Jolley  43:36  

Alvin  43:37  
And Molly. Um, I think I need things that are very much explicitly uppers. I don't know, are acid uppers? I imagine they-

Janelle Jolley  43:45  
I think it's like a psychedelic, isn't it?

Alvin  43:47  
Oh, is it?

Janelle Jolley  43:47  

Alvin  43:47  
I think I need things that will get my heart racing.

Janelle Jolley  43:50  
Why do you like that?

Alvin  43:52  
I don't know.

Janelle Jolley  43:53  
You just feel alive.

Alvin  43:53  
I need a shot of life. Yeah! Feel alive.

Janelle Jolley  43:56  

Alvin  43:57  

Janelle Jolley  43:58  
Have you ever gotten- have you ever scared yourself by too many uppers at once? You know what I mean? Like, "Holy shit. I'm about to have a heart attack."

Alvin  44:05  
Like my heart's gonna explode?

Janelle Jolley  44:07  

Alvin  44:08  

Janelle Jolley  44:10  
Okay, tell me about it.

Alvin  44:10  
But I rather, I don't know, I just feel like...yeah, I like that adrenaline rush and that feeling of just extra high and happiness. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  44:22  
He goes, "H-h-high."

Alvin  44:24  
I'm gesticulating. Like, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  44:27  

Alvin  44:27  
Um, yeah, I really do like it. I think if there weren't any negative side effects or consequences I would be doing them forever. Yeah. Like every day.

Janelle Jolley  44:40  
I wish you could see the dead ass straight face that Alvin has right now.

Alvin  44:44  
A hundred percent ernest right now.

Janelle Jolley  44:49  
God! Okay. Do you have any fun drug trips that you want to talk about?

Alvin  44:53  
Drug- drug-

Janelle Jolley  44:54  
I love hearing people's drug stories. Like, fun trips. Or they're comical because it's like, "What the fuck?"

Alvin  45:01  
I don't think I'm ever out of hand with those. I'm actually-

Janelle Jolley  45:05  
No, you don't have to be out of hand, but just like, "I'm high."

Alvin  45:06  
Yeah. I'm very careful when I do them too. I think I'm a very-

Janelle Jolley  45:12  
I'm a responsible-

Alvin  45:13  
I'm responsible drug user. I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now. But yeah, nothing off the top of my head.

Janelle Jolley  45:23  

Alvin  45:24  

Janelle Jolley  45:24  
No fun, interesting fun stories?

Alvin  45:27  
It's always like with friends that know what they're doing and I know what I'm doing and it's a good time. But I never, like I never go out and, you know-

Janelle Jolley  45:38  
Lose your fucking-

Alvin  45:39  
Do some crimes and, you know?

Janelle Jolley  45:43  
Okay. Alright.

Alvin  45:44  

Janelle Jolley  45:44  
So Alvin the responsible drug user-

Alvin  45:48  
I'm a very- I'm very proud of- I should put that on my LinkedIn. Very responsible drug user.

Janelle Jolley  45:53  
Oh my god.

Alvin  45:55  

Janelle Jolley  45:55  
You're so wild. Did you finish school in four years?

Alvin  45:59  
Four and a half years.

Janelle Jolley  46:03  

Alvin  46:03  
Or not- I, whatever, four- two semesters, or whatever.

Janelle Jolley  46:06  
Cuz you were just taking your time, you was enjoying your-

Alvin  46:10  
Cuz I actually overdosed.

Janelle Jolley  46:12  
Did you really?

Alvin  46:13  
My sophomore year, I overdosed on something and I had to take a semester off.

Janelle Jolley  46:18  
Hold on! Didn't you- you can't say you're a responsible drug user!

Alvin  46:18  
I had to check it. But this is when I was much younger. I was like, I was 19.

Janelle Jolley  46:26  
You overdosed on what?

Alvin  46:27  
Um, I'd rather not say. But I did have to check into like rehab.

Janelle Jolley  46:31  

Alvin  46:31  
I was gone for, like, a semester-ish?

Janelle Jolley  46:39  
Bitch, you buried the lead! What you mean?

Alvin  46:39  
I buried-

Janelle Jolley  46:39  
So you got into some shit. You did a little too much. Was it like a, your heart stopped? Or like you had a psychotic break?

Alvin  46:45  
I had a concussion. Is that what that means? No. What does-

Janelle Jolley  46:48  
Concussion. Like you hurt your head? You hit your head?

Alvin  46:50  
No, no, I didn't hit my head. I had a- sorry, not concussion, but what's that thing when you have epilepsy and you-

Janelle Jolley  46:55  
Oh, oh, oh, a seizure.

Alvin  46:56  
A seizure! Not a concussion, sorry,  a seizure. I guess that's what happened.

Janelle Jolley  46:59  
Whoa.  happened with the fine?

Alvin  47:02  
Yeah, and I actually don't really remember that day.

Janelle Jolley  47:05  
Of course not!

Alvin  47:06  
Oh, yeah, of course. I was lucky. But I think the doctor, I think the E- I was at the ER- they pumped it out of me. And I am-

Janelle Jolley  47:14  
That's scary!

Alvin  47:14  
And Janelle, I want to report that I am fine and well now.

Janelle Jolley  47:17  
Do you have an epileptic condition?

Alvin  47:19  
No, not at all. It was because of the drugs.

Janelle Jolley  47:21  
Oh, okay.  

Alvin  47:21  
Yeah. But I- this is also like, I was in my late teens and I was-

Janelle Jolley  47:29  
Being a fool.

Alvin  47:29  
Being a fool. I guess that's my comical story. I got a seizure.

Janelle Jolley  47:33  
No, that's not funny!

Alvin  47:33  
I mean, it's funny in retrospect.

Janelle Jolley  47:33  
? five bags of cheese puffs, not I ended up in the ER getting my damn stomach pumped.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's sort of a harrowing story, in retrospect. I- but I, actually, I always tell my friends this. The best people I have ever met in my entire life were people I met in rehab. These were-

You gonna say more about that.

Some of the most beautiful-

Now I need a bucket of popcorn cuz this is taking a whole other- uh-huh.

Alvin  48:07  
Some of the most beautiful souls I've met. People that were so kind to me. I remember- well, they tell you in rehab when you first check in, the doctor tells you, "Just so you know, Alvin-" I actually remember this very clearly- "50% of you guys will come back again. So let's not have you be part of that 50% that comes back." That was the first thing they ever told me when I checked in. I was like, "Oh." And those words stuck with me. And I met so many, once again, beautiful souls in there that have checked in a few times. Some of the most broken people you've ever met, but they were also some of the kindest people. I mean, I was there for a while, so I've gotten to know them. I remember there was this older lady, I think she must have been in her 50s, told us three times during the group day that she's checked him a few times. She was- and I was, of course, like 19 or 20 back then and there were a few of us that were younger, and she would- she was like a mom to us there. She would- they would, I mean, they were so stingy there. They would give us a bag of chips a day as like a treat. And she would hold on to her bag. And at night they separated by gender, but she would like sneak into the men's rooms and be like, "Hey, I saved the bag for you, Alvin. I know you like chips." And I was like- and, I mean, I'm not a big chip eater, but I'm like- I would have to pretend like, "Oh my god, yeah! I would love that." And I would hold on to those chips. And she would- I would tear up! But she would just- she just make an effort to really- she knew I was new in there and it was my first time checking in and she would really look out for me and just be like, "Hey, Alvin. Are you still hungry? When they give us lunch I'll save a little bit of my portion to give to you later if you're not being fed." I'm like, "No, no, no. I'm being- I'm full and I'm getting enough food here." (Siren in the background) Sorry, that's my ride.

Janelle Jolley  50:08  
Shut up, you're so stupid! So stupid.

Alvin  50:15  
Yeah. And that's my friends that I've met that I still keep in touch with.

Janelle Jolley  50:19  

Alvin  50:19  

Janelle Jolley  50:19  
We gonna have to park right here at rehab because, Hoe, you made a sound like, "Oh no, I- I'm a chemist-"

Alvin  50:26  
That was that one time.

Janelle Jolley  50:28  
Yeah, I know. And we're gonna talk about that one time. Um, friend, so was it- did you- did your parents know?

Alvin  50:36  
Yes. Yes. My mom did- my mom drove but she never driven on the fre- she's never drove on the freeway before because she's one of those people that has always been too scared. She- that was her first time ever driving on the freeway to go see me. Cuz my rehab was like, out of town.

Janelle Jolley  50:53  
Did you- after they stabilize you in the ER, did you elect to go? Or you had-

Alvin  50:57  
Oh, I was forced to go.  

Janelle Jolley  50:59  
By the court or by the hospital?

Alvin  51:01  
I don't know. I mean, I just knew I didn't have a choice. They put me on a- what do you call those things where they-

Janelle Jolley  51:06  

Alvin  51:07  
A gurney. And they made- they tied me up, it wasn't like I had a choice.

Janelle Jolley  51:11  

Alvin  51:12  
If they had asked me like, "Would you want to check in-?"

Janelle Jolley  51:14  
Like, "Would you like to check in?"

Alvin  51:16  

Janelle Jolley  51:16  
Whoa. So it was not outpatient, it was inpatient.

Alvin  51:19  
I don't know what that means.

Janelle Jolley  51:20  
Did you- were you- like, did you go home every day? Or did-

Alvin  51:22  
Oh my god! No, no, no. I could not go home. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  51:25  
How long were you there?

Alvin  51:26  
I mean, they told me a week.

Janelle Jolley  51:28  
What do you mean, "They told me?" You didn't have- there was not a calendar on the wall? Or-

Alvin  51:33  
No! They told me a week and then later I found out they lied. I mean, I don't know if they lied, but they're like, "Oh, actually, you're gonna stay another week." And then towards the end of that week, they're like, "Oh, you need to stay for another week." And I think it ended up being about a month?

Janelle Jolley  51:45  
That you were there.

Alvin  51:46  

Janelle Jolley  51:47  
So you-

Alvin  51:47  
And I had that obviously, I was like, "But I have school and I have classes. I have exams to take." And they're like, "Well, you're gonna have to just-" That's part of the reason why I stayed at college a little longer, because I missed that semester.

Janelle Jolley  51:58  
What were you thinking while you were- like, were you scared shitless? Like, "Holy shit. How did I end up here?" Like, what was going through your mind?

Alvin  52:05  
I feel like it was like a cloud.

Janelle Jolley  52:07  
Oh, like it was hazy.

Alvin  52:09  
Yeah, I just-

Janelle Jolley  52:09  
Is it because they had you hopped up on all sorts of shit?

Alvin  52:12  
I'm sure. I'm sure that was part of it. And also, it just felt like an out of body experience because I- even now when I think back to it I'm like, "Did that really happen?

Janelle Jolley  52:19  

Alvin  52:20  
I feel like I blocked that out of my- yeah.  

Janelle Jolley  52:22  
I mean, I can't blame you. I'm sure that wasn't a cake walk. Like, it was- okay.  

Alvin  52:26  
But I mean, it was still a pivotal moment in my life. And I think it informed me of who I am and how the world is and it was part of the reason why I decided to pursue psychology because I saw- met some people there that needed that help. Including myself.

Janelle Jolley  52:44  

Alvin  52:46  
And I had psychiatrists there, doctors there that were very patient and very kind with me and I wanted to, sort of, be that person?

Janelle Jolley  52:55  
Oh, so that's why you never slapped the shit out of me when I was bothering you during the campaign.

Alvin  52:58  

Janelle Jolley  52:59  
Compassion. Okay.

Alvin  53:02  
It's where I learned compassion. Yeah, it was it was an experience for me and I'm- I mean, the story does help now. As a stand up comic, it's funny to talk about.  

Janelle Jolley  53:14  

Alvin  53:15  
I can't make jokes about it. Yeah. I can make jokes about- there's nothing off limits for me, I think.

Janelle Jolley  53:20  
And that experience did not push you off drugs? Like it didn't scare the shit out of you and never pick up another one?

Alvin  53:25  

Janelle Jolley  53:26  
Alvin! What?

Alvin  53:27  
I know, I've never overdosed again. And I- that was my first time and the only time and I don't think I-

Janelle Jolley  53:32  
That needs to be your first and only time! What are we saying? Oh, no- yeah, okay.

Alvin  53:39  

Janelle Jolley  53:40  
So but you're you're much more careful than you were?

Alvin  53:41  
I'm very careful. I do think I have a very addictive personality. I do tend to be obsessive with certain things I hold on to. But I think I'm a lot more careful now. And I there's no doubt in my mind that that will ever happened again, I'm not gonna be part of that 50%.

Janelle Jolley  54:01  
Alvin, I will come visit you if you lose your mind.

Alvin  54:02  
I'll call you.

Janelle Jolley  54:02  
I will come. I will bring you a chicken box.

Alvin  54:06  
So many of my friends that I met there have gone back and-

Janelle Jolley  54:11  
Are you still in touch with a lot of-

Alvin  54:12  
I am still in touch with them. And I still, and I-

Janelle Jolley  54:15  
Some of them are still in the throes of this struggle, like-

Alvin  54:17  
Yeah, it's a cycle. And it's-

Janelle Jolley  54:18  
Of course.

Alvin  54:19  
I don't know if any of, some of them will ever leave that cycle. And it's sad to say out loud, but I think- yeah. I don't ever- I don't- I'm not gonna be that part of, that part of the 50%.

Janelle Jolley  54:31  

Alvin  54:31  

Janelle Jolley  54:32  
Okay, alright. You keep it. Honey, I did not- when I sat down with you today I was just like, "Okay, we're gonna talk about some, like-"

Alvin  54:40  
I thought we're just gonna talk about Bernie Sanders. I didn't realize I was going to talk about my life!

Janelle Jolley  54:46  
We are- we contain multitudes.

Alvin  54:49  
Yes, yes.

Janelle Jolley  54:51  
That's really what it's about. Well, Damn, I'm just glad he made it and is fine. I could not imagine not getting to be in the trenches with such a lovely human. Okay. Join us tomorrow on What's Left To Do for part two with Alvin.

Part 2 Transcript

Janelle Jolley  0:04  
Hey, welcome back to What's Left To Do with Janelle. And this is part two, with my boy Alvin, where we really don't have any answers. However, we do have a non sequitur look at politico's he finds attractive, which will make you barf. And he didn't go through an embarrassing lib phase. Miraculously. I don't know how that happened. Oh, and I go off a little bit. Anywho, part two. All right. So when you- talk to me about where things were for you, when you graduated college. You started school, you were still, you know, your frontal cortex was still forming. You know, you had reckless experiences, one of which ended you up in rehab. You got- you came back, though you bounced back. My man is a fighter.

Alvin  1:03  
I bounced back, yes!

Janelle Jolley  1:04  
And you finished school. And then what was going on with you when you finished school? Like, what were you thinking about?

Alvin  1:13  
I think as soon as I graduated, I felt a sense of doom because I felt that I peaked in college.

Janelle Jolley  1:20  
What do you mean?

Alvin  1:22  
Because I had such a good time in college. Just really the best time of my life. Made some of my best friends there, I was very involved and, you know. Then I was like, "Oh, I don't know if I'm ready for the real world." And, you know, I felt the same way when I left high school, too. I was I was prom king in high school. And I was very involved in student government and everything. And I was like, "Oh, this is- my life is over now." And then I had, you know, a great time in college. And you know what? Post-college, I've had great times in my 20s. I'm still in my twenties, but I'm-

Janelle Jolley  1:53  
You don't have to rub it in, Alvin

Alvin  1:54  
I'm in my 20s. And I'm really young.

Janelle Jolley  1:58  
Talk to me about- so, we've kind of gone through the first half, maybe two thirds of your life. Talk to me-

Alvin  2:06  
Two thirds of my life?

Janelle Jolley  2:08  
Kind of.

Alvin  2:08  
Oh my god. You're right. Yeah. I graduated when I was 21. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  2:13  
So, what were- talk to me about the series of events that led you to the point where you and I met on the campaign. Like, what got you there? How did you get there? And what was- was there awakening along the way? I presume that you, and maybe I'm projecting, I presume that you came into this understanding of your current politic on a journey. So, talk to me about what led you up to the point where we met?

Alvin  2:47  
Yeah, so I mentioned I wasn't political at all, because I didn't grow up in a political family. The first time I was really invested in a campaign or really just became more aware and read up on politics was 2016 was when- sorry, Bernie announced he was running 2015, right? So, 2015 when he announced. And I think at that moment I was still supportive of Hillary because I had no idea who Bernie was. But then I learned a little bit more about him, read up on his views, and I thought, "Oh, this is who I want to support, this is who I want to back." I had never- I had never even voted before that. And so that was the first time I registered myself to vote-

Janelle Jolley  3:36  
During the 2016 primary?

Alvin  3:37  
2016 primary, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  3:39  
How would you describe your politics before then? Like, you did not have a politic before?

Alvin  3:44  
I don't think I even had a- I even knew what I was for or against. I really just didn't pay attention.

Janelle Jolley  3:53  
What was the thing that caused you to pay attention in 2016?

Alvin  3:57  
I had people have asked me that. I don't know because it wasn't just like a switch that went off. It was I think, a slow acclamation of just reading up on news and reading up on the policy stances of Clinton and Sanders.

Janelle Jolley  4:20  
But let's walk through this.

Alvin  4:21  

Janelle Jolley  4:21  
Because it had to be something. So you weren't really political before, like politics proper, if you will, never really factored into your everyday thoughts. But you- is it that you started reading or consuming news more around 2016? Or other people around you were really, you know, starting to talk a lot about the primaries and that prompted you to read and that's how you got it? Cuz it wasn't just like, "Oh, one day I'm not into it and the next day I am." Like, what got you? Like, what was that kind of like slow, slow rolling of you into it?

Alvin  4:59  
I think pre-2016, politics just always seemed so far away from me, so far removed from me. Like, it was something that happened in D.C., and I'm living my life in California. But I think 2016 was when I had recently moved to San Francisco and was surrounding myself with friends that are more conscious of what's going on around the world. And I had, maybe it was Twitter or just Facebook? I know those aren't maybe the best places to get your news-

Janelle Jolley  5:40  
No, but if that's where you started-

Alvin  5:41  
But I was reading, you know, people's tweets and posts about politics. And for the first time ever I had a politician who spoke to me and who understand what I was going through. And was, it seemed to me, was inclusive of everyone. And I'd never felt really included in conversations that politicians were having. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  6:11  
So you never had a period of being like an embarrassing lib? You know what I mean? Like, you were never like a insufferable goddamn, just like-

Alvin  6:22  
No, because I wasn't even aware enough to be one back then.

Janelle Jolley  6:27  
Okay. So you went from not really paying attention or caring about politics at all. Like, on either side, it's just kind of like, you know, "I'm Alvin, I'm living my life. We over here. We doin' me." To like, "Oh, now I'm friends with people who are into politics. I moved to San Francisco, I'm friends with people who are more into politics." They are, you know, whatever word you want to use, of a progressive or leftist kind of orientations toward politics. And so that is where you kind of got that keyhole into exposure. And now it's the 2016 primary and you are kind of evaluating the two major candidates on the Democratic ticket, and you are more drawn to Bernie Sanders than Hillary because you saw yourself and I'm gonna say - you can correct me if I'm wrong - you saw yourself and your interests or the needs of the people around you and your community, family represented in his platform. Would that be accurate?

Alvin  7:32  
That would be right on the dot, yeah. And I know a lot of people's political journey is they start off maybe as a neoliberal or whatever. Like what you said, maybe an insufferable liberal? But I never had to go through that phase because I-

Janelle Jolley  7:50  
You're so blessed.

Alvin  7:51  
Because I was exposed to Bernie, sort of, from the get go of my, sort of, the beginning of my political journey. And I was really attracted to that right away. And he he flipped me from apolitical to political.

Janelle Jolley  8:06  
Right on. Was there one particular issue that did it?

Alvin  8:11  
You know what? No, I can't I can't point to one-  

Janelle Jolley  8:14  
He's a foxy gentlemen. He was daddy.

Alvin  8:15  
I just thought he was great. And I think I was always the - I've always wanted to support the underdog? And at that time it was-

Janelle Jolley  8:25  
He was the underdog.

Alvin  8:26  
He was the underdog. Yeah! In 2016 Clinton was the anointed candidate, and it was hers to lose.

Janelle Jolley  8:33  

Alvin  8:34  
And I watched the debate, their very first debate between the two of them. And I thought, "Oh, I can't not support Bernie. He's the progressive candidate."

Janelle Jolley  8:47  
So in 2016, you kind of had a political awakening?

Alvin  8:50  
Yeah. And it was the first time I ever volunteered for a campaign. I - at that time, Bernie had a - he didn't have an office in SF, I believe, so I think his only office in the Bay Area was Oakland? So I would take the BART all the way from Excelsior to Oakland. And I would, you know, at that time, I think it was mostly just phone banking? I don't think - I don't know if he was knocking on doors or anything. But I would go to the headquarters and get on one of their laptops that they have to loan you and I would just call folks and get people to vote for him.

Janelle Jolley  9:22  
So what was did you...what were your thoughts, or how did you perceive the 2016 primary? Like, all of the shit that happened? Do you remember how you were feeling about it?

Alvin  9:38  
I remember I was devastated when Bernie lost. It was the first time I really invested my heart and soul into a campaign and it was the first time I, you know, volunteered. And that I wasn't even - even now, I don't think I know everything about politics, but back then I definitely didn't know a lot. But I just knew in my heart that, from the little that I knew the research that I'd done, that if he were elected president that I strongly believe that America would be in a better place. I don't think we would have solved everything. We definitely wouldn't have solved everything, but I think it was gonna change lives. People's lives we're gonna be changed. Folks in the working class were gonna have a seat at the table, at the very least. And I remember being very devastated when he lost. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  10:30  
Did you - what did you think after, you know, the Hillary Clinton nomination - I'm making a face - after Hillary Clinton's the nomination in 2016, what did you - were you - this almost a silly question to ask because we all thought the same thing. Even if you didn't like her, did you think she was a lock to win? Like she's definitely going to beat Donald Trump?

Alvin  10:53  
I thought so.

Janelle Jolley  10:54  
Yeah, okay.

Alvin  10:54  
I definitely thought she was gonna win. And I was like, "Oh, we got this in the bag." And so when November, whenever election day came in 2016, I remember, I think we all remember where we were election day. And I was at my best friend's house, Cynthia's house, and we - I remember just being stunned and just sitting in silence. And we're like, "Oh, the next four years we have we have this clown."

Janelle Jolley  11:20  
After the election in 2016, were...what were you think- I mean, I know that there was a moment of shock. We all, whether or not you supported Hillary, there was, you know, a moment of shock. But like, were you still kind of politically engaged at that point? Or did you kind of check out because it's like, "Uhh, this is a clown show. This is like, what the fuck?" Where were you?

Alvin  11:45  
I think with me, and with a lot of people that I knew that became activated in 2016, once that button turns on, it's on.

Janelle Jolley  11:56  
That's right. It's just like getting ass. You just-

Alvin  11:57  
Yeah. This is it! And I've been engaged since! So I do have the Sanders campaign to thank for that. And all the volunteers that really helped me in 2016. And their staff in that office that really helped me get engaged.

Janelle Jolley  12:20  
Are there any of the people that you met in 2016 during your time volunteering that, like, y'all got the gang back together again in 2020? Or was it a totally different cast of characters in 2020?

Alvin  12:33  
I think because it was in Oakland, I don't know if I've ever kept in touch with - I don't think so. No. Yeah. But when 2020 came around, I got plugged into, you know, the folks in SF that were engaged - Claire being one of them. And, yeah, and sort of I joined this, this club called the Berniecrats and met more folks through there and through Claire, and I was able to get a job on the Sanders Campaign. And, yeah, that's sort of how it happened.

Janelle Jolley  13:07  
During Trump's term, were you annoyed by the coverage of him? Or did it seem fine to you? That's a very leading slanted question.

Alvin  13:21  
It seemed fine. No just kidding. I was, yeah, very annoyed. I think the media is at fault for his rise to the presidency, and I think enabled him to do a lot of the horrible things he's done during his term. And I...yeah. And I think the media is definitely a culprit. Or, at the very least, they're culpable.

Janelle Jolley  13:51  
But did you ever buy the Russiagate stuff?

Alvin  13:54  

Janelle Jolley  13:54  
Yeah, never. That's why I fuck with you the long ?

Alvin  14:00  
And I think it's - it was so annoying for them to buy into this narrative. And I think that putting flames to that really helps Trump in a sense, this year, when he's trying to say that there was election fraud.

Janelle Jolley  14:16  

Alvin  14:17  

Janelle Jolley  14:17  
What - why do you think - this is, I'm digressing here. Why do you think you didn't fall for the Russiagate thing? Like, why do you think you didn't buy it and so many other people do?

Alvin  14:26  
Because my eyes are open, Janelle. Because I surrounded myself with people who are much more knowledgeable than me and people that have been in the game a lot longer. And I was able to not, I was able to listen to them and not just get their perspective, but different people's perspectives. And I think that's what a lot of people miss out on these days, is they only listen to the perspectives of-

Janelle Jolley  14:57  
Rachel Maddows.

Alvin  14:58  
Yeah, yeah. And they don't talk to the people on the ground, the people that have been doing this long and are able to look at this through a critical lens.

Janelle Jolley  15:05  
Yeah, c'mon.

Alvin  15:06  
And so I can't say, "Oh, I figured this all out on my own. That my eyes are open because of my own research, my own knowledge." But it's through people who really-

Janelle Jolley  15:17  
The community you surround yourself with.

Alvin  15:18  
The community that I surrounded myself with. Yeah, people like Claire, people like you, people that I really trust and want to learn from. Because I'm still a newbie in this whole game.

Janelle Jolley  15:31  
It's a process of learning and-

Alvin  15:32  

Janelle Jolley  15:34  
Learning, unlearning, unknowing, interrogating, it never ends.

Alvin  15:39  
Yeah. The unlearning part is the hardest part, I think.

Janelle Jolley  15:42  
Hey! Come on! Help somebody. What did you have to unlearn?

Alvin  15:49  
That politicians, for the most part, don't have your best interest in mind.

Janelle Jolley  15:54  

Alvin  15:55  
They have their - they want to further their career, they want to make money.

Janelle Jolley  15:59  
And how do they do that?

Alvin  16:00  
How do they do what?

Janelle Jolley  16:01  
No, no. How did they do that? I'm trying to pull on a yarn here. For them to further their career, how is that done?

Alvin  16:07  
They vote on the side of the folks that are financing their campaigns, and the folks that - the establishment. And I know when people use the word establishment, it's such a blanket statement. But what I mean is, you know, the folks in the leadership and in their party, and they really - it's how they vote and how they... it's not dictated by, "Oh, what's gonna serve my community and the people I represent?" It's, "How am I going to appease these higher officials or people that can get me to places?" And things like that. And it's just a game to them and it's really sad. And I think part of what really drew me to Sanders in 2016 was he wanted money out of politics. He wasn't accepting any sort of PAC money, super PAC money. That really spoke to me. As someone that's not making a lot of money that's not able to, you know, buy a politician, I wanted someone that can speak to me and that can represent me because they want to represent me.

Janelle Jolley  17:25  
Right. Hmm. So, you know, back in 2016 happens like, "Look what y'all stupid ass did, you got Trump elected." Part of that's on the DNC for running such a uniquely odious candidate.

Alvin  17:39  
Yeah. Sort of - wasn't it the most unfavorable candidate?

Janelle Jolley  17:44  
Bro! Listen.

Alvin  17:44  
In history, from both sides. The DNC and the RNC, right?

Janelle Jolley  17:49  
Well, I mean, the RNC, they had - the RNC establishment was not in favor of Trump, but the rank and file RNC voters and a lot of, a good amount of independents, truth be told, were crazy about him. And that's why he was able to, you know, bitch slap Reince Priebus - that's the worst name on Earth.

Alvin  18:07  
Reince Priebus?

Janelle Jolley  18:10  

Alvin  18:11  
I think that name is so cute.

Janelle Jolley  18:12  
I will not allow ?

Alvin  18:16  
Reince Priebus? I want to name my kid Reince Priebus. Can I admit something? Do I have permission to speak freely on this podcast?

Janelle Jolley  18:26  
Speak freely on this podcast? If you say Reince Preibus could touch it I will ask you to leave.

Alvin  18:31  
I think he's sort of cute.

Janelle Jolley  18:32  
Absolutely not.  

Alvin  18:33  
He's like, if you look at photos of him, he's always wearing an oversized suit.

Janelle Jolley  18:37  
Is that the type of dude you go for? Gross, nasty?

Alvin  18:42  
But I think he's just so awkward. And he's very short. And he's just always sort of out of place in pictures. And I'm like, "There's something endearing about that."

Janelle Jolley  18:50  
Okay, you said: very short, awkward, out of place. And to you, now there's hearts in your eyes. What are you saying?

Alvin  18:59  
I mean, he's like rosy cheeked and he's like-m

Janelle Jolley  19:01  
So you think it's adorable?

Alvin  19:02  
It's adorable.

Janelle Jolley  19:03  
Not hot, adorable.  

Alvin  19:04  
It's sort of like you feel sad for them a little bit. Adorable. Like, you're like, "Oh, what are you doing here Reince or Rince?" Like, he's in photos with Trump and all them. Like, you're so out of place here.

Janelle Jolley  19:19  
And that makes you - this doesn't make you want to do it to him does it?

Alvin  19:23  
He's complicit - I mean, he's not just complicit, he's horrible, and he's a terrible person. And he's enabled Trump.

Janelle Jolley  19:29  
But you want to, like, pinch his cheeks, pat his head-

Alvin  19:32  
If he's there and he lets me, I would pinch his cheeks. You know, once in a while I have this, I'll have like a - it's not a crush, but I'll find a republican adorable.

Janelle Jolley  19:44  
Oh, no but some of them are ok- I mean, some of them you can-

Alvin  19:46  
I wanna pull on Marco Rubio's ears.

Janelle Jolley  19:51  
Shut the fuck up. You're so stupid.

Alvin  19:53  
He has these big oversized ears that does not fit his face.

Janelle Jolley  19:57  
He has a funny looking - I would- I-

Alvin  19:59  
He tries so hard. It's like that kid in high school that's so nerdy you're like ,"Oh, oh my god." Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  20:05  
It's real sad.

Alvin  20:06  

Janelle Jolley  20:07  
What- are there- who do I find adorable as a Republican?

Alvin  20:10  
Okay, you have to say something because otherwise I'm-

Janelle Jolley  20:12  
Okay, you know who I'm gonna be - okay.

Alvin  20:15  
This is no judgment. Like you said, it's a no judgement zone.

Janelle Jolley  20:18  
This is a no judgement zone. You're not allowed to snatch any, you know, comrade cards from me. But if I'm being honest - I really hate that I'm about to say this because I think one of my friends who is not a lefty, she's a moderate, she just jizzes over this gentleman. She'll start laughing.

Alvin  20:38  
Wait, I have guesses in my head.

Janelle Jolley  20:40  
Okay, you get three guesses.

Alvin  20:43  
Cuz there's - okay, there's quite a few of them that are daddys.

Janelle Jolley  20:48  
Write me down a list, honey. You run run down ?

Alvin  20:51  
You're not gonna say Donald Trump, though, right?

Janelle Jolley  20:51  
Come on. Come on.

Alvin  20:58  
Oh my god. No, I dont want-

Janelle Jolley  21:00  
Top five Republican zaddies.

Alvin  21:03  
I can't believe this is where the-

Janelle Jolley  21:03  
This is problematic.

Alvin  21:04  
This is where the podcast is-

Janelle Jolley  21:06  
Yeah, no. This is- this is okay.

Alvin  21:07  
Did you ever think that this was gonna go here?

Janelle Jolley  21:09  
I wanted it to go here, so...

Alvin  21:10  
You know who I do think is also pretty hot? He's the Secretary of Housing and HUD. Carson something?

Janelle Jolley  21:19  
Ben Carson?

Alvin  21:20  
Ben Carson!  

Janelle Jolley  21:21  
You have to get out of here right-

Alvin  21:21  
He's adorable.

Janelle Jolley  21:23  

Alvin  21:24  
I mean, he's - I'm saying to the audience out there: I hate them all, they're horrible people. But you can be a good looking horrible person.

Janelle Jolley  21:34  
You would throw it back for Ben Carson?

Alvin  21:36  
He's like a grandpa. Like, he's just- and he's also so-

Janelle Jolley  21:39  
You would fuck grandpa?

Alvin  21:40  
I would not- okay.

Janelle Jolley  21:41  
This is my list!

Alvin  21:42  
Let's let's be clear, I'm not gonna fuck him.

Janelle Jolley  21:44  
Top five fuckables that happen to have an R in it. That's what I'm going for. Not just adorable old fogies, because they're all kind of like-

Alvin  21:53  
Oh, I think a lot of people are creaming their pants for Paul Ryan, but I don't see it. I don't see it.

Janelle Jolley  22:00  
Okay, here's-

Alvin  22:01  
He's not cute to me at all.

Janelle Jolley  22:04  
Vomit. Okay, here's the thing. Paul Ryan is- I do not think he is attractive, but he does have a decent body.

Alvin  22:12  
He does!

Janelle Jolley  22:12  
And he's that guy- I feel like Paul Ryan was that guy, that white guy you met either in college or right after, that you could finally wear him down to go with you and the rest of your coworkers to a bar. You were pleasantly surprised that he kind of had rhythm, but that's where it ended. It was just- like he has a like, "Oh, you're surprisingly not as lame as I thought." But he doesn't do it for me. Like I wouldn't-

Alvin  22:32  
He doesn't do it for me either. I don't see it at all.

Janelle Jolley  22:46  
I see what some people with cataracts see, but-

Alvin  22:49  

Janelle Jolley  22:50  
But no, that's not it.

Alvin  22:52  
Like, if I had to choose. Like, you have to flag one person.

Janelle Jolley  22:57  
Yeah ok. Then, Paul would be the peak, but not- but only because Mitch McConnell doesn't have a penis. You know what I mean? It's just how that works.

Alvin  23:07  
Or a neck. It's like-

Janelle Jolley  23:08  
Or a- it's real gross.  

Alvin  23:11  

Janelle Jolley  23:11  
Okay, you didn't give me your top five fuckables!

Alvin  23:13  
Okay. I mean, they're not all, like, hottie, but if I had to pick five-

Janelle Jolley  23:19  
Yeah, if you had to.

Alvin  23:16  
And I just want to make clear one more time, I do not agree with their politics. They're horrible people. But if I had to pick one- pick five. We're gonna have to look- we're going to have to Google how to really pronounce his name. Rinse?

Janelle Jolley  23:34  
We're gonna call him Rinse.

Alvin  23:35  
Rinse, like Reince Priebus?

Janelle Jolley  23:38  
I am so sad that that's- he's on your list, but okay.

Alvin  23:41  
Marco Rubio. I think he's- his ears are- just something about his ears just make me- like it makes my pussy wet. Oh god, just like, "Oh, I wanna-"

Janelle Jolley  23:54  
Oh, that's the Christ.

Alvin  23:58  
Well, what about-

Janelle Jolley  23:58  
Marco Rubio makes you moist?

Alvin  24:00  
A little bit.

Janelle Jolley  24:02  
What is-

Alvin  24:03  
You don't see it?

Janelle Jolley  24:04  
Listen, Imma write all this off. This is rehab. This your rehab brain talking because this is not it! This your rehab brain- go ahead-

Alvin  24:13  
Okay, out of everybody that was- the whole primary, during the Republican primary in 2016. He was the best looking out of all of them. Okay, tell me another- who? Who?

Janelle Jolley  24:13  
No, no. You get three more. We get five fuckables. Go ahead. So Reince-ass, Marco-

Alvin  24:33  
I just feel like I'm going to get myself in trouble. I think- okay, I will say Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr., they're a snack.

Janelle Jolley  24:48  
Oh, you're picking a- okay, that's-

Alvin  24:51  

Janelle Jolley  24:52  
No. I mean, I'm not gonna-

Alvin  24:53  
They're good looking for the Republican party.

Janelle Jolley  24:56  
I mean, they're good looking because they don't have regular- they have rich people face. Like, they're able to buy the work that- I thought you- I thought these were all going to be men.

Alvin  25:05  
Okay, okay, okay. Let's just pick Donald Trump Jr. is a good look- and I think that's it. I don't think there's any more than that.

Janelle Jolley  25:11  
Okay. This is- this makes me...

Alvin  25:14  
You're like disgusted with me.You just cannot look me in the eyes. I just want everyone to know that Janelle is no longer looking me in the eyes during this conversation.

Janelle Jolley  25:22  
I can't do it because now this've taken me to a place that I did-

Alvin  25:27  
I asked if I could speak freely earlier.

Janelle Jolley  25:28  
Yeah, I mean, and now I want you back in bondage because, whew!

Alvin  25:33  
I;m trying to think if there's anyone else I'm missing? I think that's it. I don't- because it is an it's an ugly bunch, the Republican Party. But those people stand out to me because everyone else is so unattractive. Do you think Melania's pretty?

Janelle Jolley  25:49  
I think Melania's prettier than Ivanka.

Alvin  25:49  
I think Melania's gorgeous.

Janelle Jolley  25:52  
I think she's prettier than Ivanka. She's a- Melania's a legitimately attractive woman.

Alvin  25:57  
She's beautiful.

Janelle Jolley  25:58  
I don't know if it's those little beady eyes, or her- she has great bone structure. She's pretty. And she don't talk a lot. That's why I think she's allowed to be pretty. She don't pop off that much.

Alvin  26:08  

Janelle Jolley  26:09  
She has that moody, like rich model wife thing going.

Alvin  26:13  
Yeah, like she's always upset about something, and I like that. Like, very pouty.

Janelle Jolley  26:19  
Okay, who are my problematic-

Alvin  26:22  
Yeah, I want to hear it now because I would like to flip the table and judge you.

Janelle Jolley  26:30  
So- my friend Christina is going to start hollering. Zaddy, if we're being honest, even though I hate to admit this. Zaddy: Mitt Romney. That's a good looking mormon.

Alvin  26:43  
Oh! I forgot about that dude.

Janelle Jolley  26:45  
Yeah, okay, thank you.

Alvin  26:45  
Okay, okay. Mitt Romney, there we go.

Janelle Jolley  26:47  
Zaddy. I mean, you know, he...he probably can't help but to...fuck like a Mormon. But, okay, fine.

Alvin  26:57  
I was about to make it Mormon joke, but I held my tongue

Janelle Jolley  27:00  
No, please. Let it fly.

Alvin  27:01  
But you did it.

Janelle Jolley  27:02  
Yes, I did it for you.

Alvin  27:07  

Janelle Jolley  27:07  

Alvin  27:07  

Janelle Jolley  27:07  
He's not hot, per se. Like, he's not hot at all, actually. But he has a very sultry voice? This is this- I'm going to regret saying this out loud. He has a very sultry voice: Jeb Bush.

Alvin  27:24  
Oh! That's a surprising one. Okay.

Janelle Jolley  27:27  
He has a sultry voice. He's not a- he's not- I mean, he's not ugly. He's a old white guy. But a sulty voice.

Alvin  27:32  
Wait, what about his brother, George? Who's better looking?

Janelle Jolley  27:38  
There's...I can't separate George W. Bush-

Alvin  27:41  

Janelle Jolley  27:42  
From the Egypt and butcher of Baghdad that I understand him to be associated, he'll never be attractive to me.

Alvin  27:47  

Janelle Jolley  27:48  
I would take Jeb. I would take Jeb over George any day.

Alvin  27:50  
You'd take Jeb over George. Okay.

Janelle Jolley  27:52  
Who else? Who else is a good looking Republican?

Alvin  28:00  
You know who I think is hot?

Janelle Jolley  28:02  

Alvin  28:03  
She was the ambassador... of something. Haley- Nikki Haley? Haley Nikki? I think she's hot.

Janelle Jolley  28:12  

Alvin  28:12  

Janelle Jolley  28:13  

Alvin  28:14  

Janelle Jolley  28:15  

Alvin  28:16  

Janelle Jolley  28:17  

Alvin  28:18  
I think she's really cool- she's like a badass. I think she's really good looking. What about Democrats? Let's talk about that.

Janelle Jolley  28:26  
Okay, you have to give me your top five fuckable Democrats.

Alvin  28:29  
Okay, here's- I want to fuck.

Janelle Jolley  28:32  

Alvin  28:32  
And I will do-

Janelle Jolley  28:32  
You mean affirmatively?

Alvin  28:33  
Everything in my power to get there.  

Janelle Jolley  28:35  

Alvin  28:36  

Janelle Jolley  28:36  

Alvin  28:36  
Pete Buttigieg.

Janelle Jolley  28:39  

Alvin  28:40  
He's so cute to me! I have a crush on him.

Janelle Jolley  28:43  
You don't think he's gay for clout?

Alvin  28:45  
And- huh?

Janelle Jolley  28:45  
You don't think he's gay for clout?

Alvin  28:48  
No! No one's gay for clout.

Janelle Jolley  28:49  
You gotta clout chase in the Democratic party!

Alvin  28:53  

Janelle Jolley  28:53  
That, like, gets you to the front of the line.  

Alvin  28:55  
Oh my god. His face? I want to-

Janelle Jolley  28:58  
Are you being serious?

Alvin  28:59  
I'm serious. And I- what I will once again have to say this- I did not vote for him.

Janelle Jolley  29:05  
I'm sending you back to ? because your eyes do not...your eyes are not functioning.

Alvin  29:07  
Oh, I love him.

Janelle Jolley  29:08  
I mean, he's not- put the fact that I cant stand him aside.

Alvin  29:12  
He speaks six languages, Janelle!

Janelle Jolley  29:14  
Bitch, what- I mean, you know, lick my balls. I don't care. Eww!

Alvin  29:18  
Oh my god. I just think-

Janelle Jolley  29:19  
I mean, he's a good looking guy but I can't separate how he looks from him being just- having the energy, the ultimate energy of a dweeb.

Alvin  29:30  
Of a rat, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  29:33  
Of a rat.

Alvin  29:34  
I think with- the problem with me is I'm able to separate those. And if I-

Janelle Jolley  29:38  
Do you think he's a top or bottom? Or switch? Or a flex?

Alvin  29:38  

Janelle Jolley  29:38  
You think he's a top?

Alvin  29:43  
Wait, actually, I don't know. Cuz I'm looking at Chasten.

Janelle Jolley  29:46  
You want him to be a top.

Alvin  29:47  
I'm actually a top...which is surprising.

Janelle Jolley  29:50  
All the time?

Alvin  29:50  
All the time.

Janelle Jolley  29:51  

Alvin  29:51  
I've bottomed three times in my life.

Janelle Jolley  29:53  

Alvin  29:54  
And they were all in college and I hated it.

Janelle Jolley  29:55  
I would never-

Alvin  29:56  
But everyone is always surprised when they hear that, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  30:01  

Alvin  30:01  
Yeah. yeah.

Janelle Jolley  30:03  
I would have never- I mean that's-

Alvin  30:04  
But I think I would- I had promised myself I would never bottom again, but I would do it for Pete Buttigieg.

Janelle Jolley  30:10  
You would throw it back for Pete-

Alvin  30:12  
I would do it.

Janelle Jolley  30:12  
That's who we're making exceptions for?

Alvin  30:14  
That's what- that's the only person that we're all about making an exception for.

Janelle Jolley  30:18  
I don't know if I can handle that.  

Alvin  30:20  
Can I have my coat back?

Janelle Jolley  30:23  
You're going to have to wind this down right now. Wow! Okay. I don't know that I wanted to learn that about you today but, here we are.

Alvin  30:34  
Got a little more than he bargained for.

Janelle Jolley  30:36  
So Pete- is that? I'm-

Alvin  30:38  
Pete is number- and not just number one and Democratic. Number one...for everything.

Janelle Jolley  30:43  
Are you being serious?

Alvin  30:44  
Well, Brad Pitt and then Pete Buttigieg.

Janelle Jolley  30:48  
Dawg. That is a continuum. What?

Alvin  30:51  
And that is- it also changes. Sometimes it's Pete number one, Brad number two.

Janelle Jolley  30:56  
I really don't know if you're- I don't know if you're fucking with me, right now or if you're being extremely honest

Alvin  31:00  
I'm not fucking with you.  

Janelle Jolley  31:00  
Are we serious?

Alvin  31:01  
Yeah! Okay, but I would, obviously, if I obviously, if I am his hus- when I am his husband, I am going to, you know, talk some sense into him and be like, "Hey, Pete. Petey, it's time to adopt Medicare for All into your platform. And I'm gonna, you know, you need to sign onto the Green New Deal. And you need to, you know, give a call...right now call Bernie and talk about- learn from him." And then I would support him for his run for...he's gonna have to change a lot.

Janelle Jolley  31:35  
If he- if Pete is your number one, I'm-

Alvin  31:37  
Well, to be fair, sometimes number two.

Janelle Jolley  31:37  
I'm clenching my butt cheeks right now.

Alvin  31:38  

Janelle Jolley  31:38  
Who is 2, 3, 4 and 5?

Alvin  31:44  
In the Democratic Party or in tot- overall?

Janelle Jolley  31:48  
Democrat! We ran down-

Alvin  31:49  
Oh, we're going the- okay, right. Democratic Party. There is- there's truly no one that can hold a candle to Pete.

Janelle Jolley  31:57  
Alvin, what is going on in your brain?

Alvin  32:00  
We are talking about people- their looks, Janelle. I'm not talking about who they are as a person.

Janelle Jolley  32:07  
Okay, so it's Pete and nobody- you ain't got eyes for nobody else in the Democratic Party?

Alvin  32:13  
Oh, I have a crush on Andrew Cuomo's brother.

Janelle Jolley  32:17  
Okay. Now, that- see, that makes sense.

Alvin  32:18  
What's his name? Chris Cuomo. I think he's hot. He has a really good body. If you go on his Instagram and, there's some shirtless pics of him.

Janelle Jolley  32:25  
You're such a creep.  

Alvin  32:26  
But that's it. But, yeah, I mean, he's not part of-

Janelle Jolley  32:28  
He is good- now, he is unimpeachabley good looking.

Alvin  32:31  
Oh yeah.

Janelle Jolley  32:31  
I could unders-

Alvin  32:32  
You see it, right?

Janelle Jolley  32:33  
I- Oh, oh, I see.

Alvin  32:36  
And Don Lemon. Is that his name? Oh, my God. He's gay too, right?

Janelle Jolley  32:42  
He's so gay. But that's not the point. The point is-

Alvin  32:46  
But, I mean, he's also not-

Janelle Jolley  32:47  
We're going- if- okay, here's the x and y axis.

Alvin  32:50  
Yeah? And just so the audience knows, Janelle is doing an actual graph with her hands.

Janelle Jolley  32:57  
Here's the x and y axis. Y axis is personality.

Alvin  33:02  

Janelle Jolley  33:02  
Raw personality, from zero to infinity. What time is it?

Alvin  33:06  
It's 5:08.

Janelle Jolley  33:06  

Alvin  33:07  
And I have to leave at 5:30.

Janelle Jolley  33:10  
Oh, fuck. Okay, we have to speed through this sexual nature of our politics. I'm super confused about your list of sexuals but because I've already dedicated my life to loving you, it's okay. Now, what- tell me about where- how you- like, what went into you deciding to be a part of the campaign? Can you tell your friend six o'clock? Do you have-

Alvin  33:40  
Yes, six o'clock.

Janelle Jolley  33:41  
Okay, okay, okay.

Alvin  33:44  
I had already taken a break from tech then to pursue comedy. And so I had the time.

Janelle Jolley  33:51  
Full time?

Alvin  33:51  
Full time, yeah. So I had the time. And, you know, unfortunately, I can't say that I was, you know, so busy in comedy that I couldn't take another gig. So, or another job. So I was there sort of at the right place at the right time. I had known Claire, who you know, and I was actually knocking on doors for Bernie at a canvassing event that Claire was hosting. And I had just after the canvassing event I had casually mentioned to her, "Yeah, I'm sort of free these days. Because I'm not getting booked that much," those months. And then they, Claire was like, "Oh, well we actually have an opening at the Sanders campaign and you should apply and interview for it." So I thought, you know, "Why not? I am already volunteering so much for Bernie, might as well get paid for it."

Janelle Jolley  34:45  

Alvin  34:45  
And so I interviewed for it with her and, had a formal interview with her, and got it and, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  34:54  
Relative to 2016, what were your thoughts about his chances in 2020?

Alvin  35:00  
I think I'm a...I've always been a realist. And I think I knew that the establishment was gonna do everything in their power to make sure he's not the nominee. So I really wasn't surprised when he wasn't the nominee. But I also had a sense of hope. And I was trying to be optimistic about the whole thing. And things were looking good for him and for our campaign leading up to Super Tuesday. I thought- he had won-

Janelle Jolley  35:32  
Okay, okay.

Alvin  35:32  

Janelle Jolley  35:33  
Here's what we're gonna do, because this part got edited out with Liz.

Alvin  35:35  

Janelle Jolley  35:36  
Okay, let's run the tape. Just because when I look back on what happened with the 2020 Democratic primary, sometimes I have to remind myself, "No, you're not crazy to look at how things shook out and just have come away with this extreme disgust because of how anti-democratic the primary was. But the fall of 2019, you know, he had been, you know, he had steadily been, you know, rising in the polls the whole year because there had been, you know, drama ups and downs with, you know, Kamala. Like, she was everybody person for a second, like she had a flash in the pan moment. She fell off. It was really looking like, you know, Joe was the heir apparent but Pokey had a moment, that's what I call Elizabeth Warren because Petty Pocahontas.

Alvin  36:25  
Oh, okay, okay.

Janelle Jolley  36:26  
Pokey had a moment where it looked like it was hers to lose.

Alvin  36:29  

Janelle Jolley  36:30  
And then she had that abominable rollout of her Medicare for all plan. Which just alighted for everyone that she's a wolf in sheep's clothing. But, you know, homeboy had the heart attack, that was not a good time for me. But then, you know, then he came back!

Alvin  36:45  
AOC and the squad endorsed- or, three of those-

Janelle Jolley  36:48  
That's right. He- like, everything he- it was just, he- it was that, it was the fable of the tortoise and the hare. Then we get to the first contest and it's like, "Oh, actually, none of these polls-," and we should know that polls don't mean motherfuck right now, but all these polls had it wrong because ain't nobody really checkin' for Joe because how did he come in- what was it, like fourth place in Iowa?

Alvin  37:11  
I don't know. But, not good.

Janelle Jolley  37:12  
It wasn't top three!

Alvin  37:13  

Janelle Jolley  37:14  
It's like, okay-

Alvin  37:15  
I think Iowa was Bernie and Pete tied, quote unquote, and then Elizabeth Warren, then Joe.

Janelle Jolley  37:20  
Yeah, that's-

Alvin  37:20  

Janelle Jolley  37:21  
Yeah. So it's like, Iowa happened and it's just like, "Oh, surprise surprise!" Things are not following the consensus that was building around these, you know, these polls that aren't worth a damn. And then New Hampshire came. My man did it. And then it was Nevada. He Hava Nagila'd on that ass in Nevada, had everybody shook.

Alvin  37:43  
He got more votes in Nevada than the next three, I think, right?

Janelle Jolley  37:48  
He won by a metric fuck ton.

Alvin  37:51  

Janelle Jolley  37:51  
It was just- and that, you know, that put wind in the sails for people like us who were, you know, you- I mean, you were a formal staff member. I was just like a super volunteer, just always the fuck around. But you, like we were rib- do you remember just that energy? The- but, it's just like-

Alvin  38:06  
Oh my god.

Janelle Jolley  38:07  
Holy shit.

Alvin  38:08  
I would give anything to go back to that moment.

Janelle Jolley  38:11  
And it was feeling, it was just like, "We really do have these motherfuckers on skates."

Alvin  38:15  

Janelle Jolley  38:15  
Like, people are seeing with their own eyes. They're thinking for themselves. You know, all the hard work is paying off. Holy shit, we're going into Super Tuesday and we are about to- I mean, South Carolina was coming up and- but I remember, and you tell me if I'm wrong. But I remember going to South Carolina like, "He's probably not going to win, but he'll, you know, he'll come in second-"

Alvin  38:37  
Yeah. I actually remember our conversation about South Carolina. Because I remember I went up to you and I was like, "I'm not feeling great about it. I think Bernie's not gonna do well there and it's gonna be bad." But you're like, "He's gonna come in second."

Janelle Jolley  38:52  
Yeah, yeah.

Alvin  38:52  
"And he's still gonna be-"

Janelle Jolley  38:53  
Yeah, cuz it was like the first three contests-

Alvin  38:55  

Janelle Jolley  38:56  
About where it was clo- well, I mean, I- well, they pulled some punches so it wasn't clear, but we all know what happened.

Alvin  39:01  

Janelle Jolley  39:01  
But it's like, the first three contests went to him. South Carolina, maybe he'll come in second. But Super Tuesday, goddamn! And it's about to be on.

Alvin  39:01  

Janelle Jolley  39:09  
The night of the long knives happened after South Carolina where, you know, Barack Obama came down from fucking, you know, his palatial palace. You know, the authoritarian Dems, you know, coalesced around Joe, who everyone had left for dead by that- like, that's what kind of makes me crazy when I think about it. Don't talk to me about democracy. And, I mean, on one hand- mm, say that a different way, Janelle. Don't moralize to me about democracy when you're all too willing to compromise it when it appears that democracy will run up against your interests and the people who pad your pockets being able to continue to, almost in a vampiric way, extract profits out of the healthcare sector or whatever. Because it really- if we run the ta- I think I did that, because if we run the tape back, it really was looking bad for the establishment. Because he, you know, had everyone stayed in at that point, you know, he, you know, they would have split the kind of like, moderate to, you know, dipshit vote, and, you know, he could have convincingly had a plurality going into the convention, where, you know, it still wouldn't have been a given it still wouldn't have been a lock. But, you know, it wouldn't have gone the way it did. But, you know, it was more important for party leaders and by party leaders, I do mean Barack Obama, the party leader, to be, as the standard bearer, to stop this very democratic articulation of what it is that people deserve. Because, you know, "My legacy is at stake here." I get angry all over. And it's not sour grapes, but- and I know it ends up sounding like that. But I end up getting angry all over again, because of this being a moment where people from all walks of life, like, you know, you remember, the Latina grannies that would come in on Thursday to phonebank in Spani- you know what I mean? Like, people taking time off of work, taking time after work, taking time before work, taking time on the weekends. You know, putting together a little bit of money to travel to other states to help ca- like, this was the people's articulation of a platform that was going to materially help their lives. This wasn't, you know, popularity contest because, you know, "I think Banara's hair is slamming, and I don't like, you know, and I don't like the way, you know, Pete wears his, you know, l'il itty bitty suits." You know what I mean? Like, this was a real thing that people saw stakes in. They saw a future in. And it makes me angry because it really- if democracy was what we thought it was. If democracy was still this, kind of, more closely mirrored the parochial idea of democracy, we wouldn't be in this situation where, you know, people are frightened into voting, not even for a candidate, but people are frightened into voting against one candidate, you know, and you know, just throwing their vote to another, when he is not offering a motherfucking thing to people. And it's just, it's kind of wild for me to just sit with that. And that's why I'm so- it just, just this year, on top of the pandemic, of course, is just politically is just so disgusting to me. Like, all- millions of people across this country were standing up and finally feeling competent enough to say, like, "No, you know what? I do deserve health care, it is a human right." Or, "I do not deserve to be penalised for getting an education, you know, I don't deserve to be penalized with six figures of debt for the sin of getting an education." Or, you know, "We do deserve a clean environment, you know, full stop, like, and we don't have to, you know, we don't have to appease, you know, crackers or oil and gas, because I do want my children to, you know, grow up with clean air and clean water." Like, that any reasonable society, like...that which is articulated by a majority of people would be reflected in the political arena. But that's not the case here. And it's just like, "What?"

Alvin  43:57  

Janelle Jolley  43:58  
I'm sorry for rambling.

Alvin  43:59  
No. And it, you know it- that made me riled up because I- made me relive those moments leading up to Super Tuesday? And it truly was eye opening and disappointing and-

Janelle Jolley  44:13  

Alvin  44:14  
Yeah, I don't think I will ever in my life get over that.

Janelle Jolley  44:16  
I don't think I will ever forgive these hoes for what they did. And I remember exactly where I was- you remember the weekend, right before Super Tuesday, you know, it was all of know, that's when everyone was dropping out and like-

Alvin  44:33  

Janelle Jolley  44:32  
You know, we're hosting canvas- or you were running around trying to make sure everybody's canvas is together. Like, I was hosting canvases, I'm seeing this news come across my phone, and I'm just like, "I, a fool." And I was just like, "Oh, I thought it was going to redound to the benefit of Bernie." I thought enough people had seen the early wins he racked up-

Alvin  44:50  

Janelle Jolley  44:50  
And were going to throw their bows to him because it was absurd at that point to think that so many people were just going to fall in line and vote for Joe. So I thought that was going to read down to Bernie's benefit. And it absolutely- I mean, we know what happened- it absolutely did not.  

Alvin  45:03  
I think because of the media, the earned media really just focused so much on Joe Biden winning South Carolina.

Janelle Jolley  45:12  
And that happened- there was a 30 point, 30 plus points, swing over the weekend.

Alvin  45:18  

Janelle Jolley  45:18  
That changed things in Joe's favor. And it's just like, "Wow!"

Alvin  45:22  

Janelle Jolley  45:23  
Wow. So using that as an example, or speaking of that, when you- having lived through what we saw and experienced in 2020, how do you understand the political arena? And its limitations or possibilities, having lived through what we live through in the primary, 2020? As a leftist.

Alvin  45:52  
Yeah. To be honest, I can't say I came out of it feeling heartened. I came out of it thinking, sort of, after Super Tuesday, like "What's the point?" You work so hard. You and I have so many of these people in our community- and you brought up, you know, these Latina aunties and grannies that would come on Thursday, those abuelas that would come and...and I-

Janelle Jolley  46:18  
Came straight from work. Shuttled in, tired, and like, "Where's my table? It's time to make calls for tio Bernie, give me the Spanish script. Let's go. We finna call down this list."

Alvin  46:31  
Yeah, really! So many people threw down when they had, you know, when they were so busy with work and everything. And it really breaks my heart that it felt like it was all for nothing. And obviously, it wasn't all for nothing. We built a community and we were able to spread the progressive message. And- but it- yeah, I just remember being so disheartened and so disappointed. And just thinking, "I never want to do this again because no matter what I do the establishment, the leadership of the party, what they say is gonna end up being what happens. So what's the point of me putting in all this work?" But that's not true. I don't that's true. And I don't think I've gotten there, to know what exactly is my value in all of this? But I do think there is a need to keep fighting.

Janelle Jolley  47:34  
Within the democratic party or outside of it?

Alvin  47:36  
I don't know, Janelle. I don't think I've arrived at a conclusion. I don't know. I've also just-

Janelle Jolley  47:45  
What was the, no, go ahead. Sorry.

Alvin  47:47  
I've also just come from the heel of another loss recently, where it was very much us against the establishment. And-

Janelle Jolley  47:56  
With John Avalos?

Alvin  47:56  

Janelle Jolley  47:57  
Really? He's, he's an outside player.

Alvin  47:59  
Yeah, yeah. The person that he was running against had the backing of Feinstein, the mayor and our governor. And so, yeah. So I'm very still sore from that and I don't know what my take away from all this is? And I really just jumped into that right after Bernie's campaign, too, so I don't think I've had time to really process it all. I don't know.

Janelle Jolley  48:30  
I mean, it's okay. I don't- I'm not insisting that you have an answer now because I think a lot of us are in the same place of just like, we lived through the bullshit, we saw it, we have an understanding of why this happens. But like, what do we do now? I think it's completely human and natural to be at a place of like, "Okay...well, then what the fuck do I do?? But I'll press you on that. Like, what do you think might be possible in terms of- not might be possible- what do you desire to be possible and how might we get there? That's a big question.


But, so let's break it up into smaller pieces. You know, the Democratic Party is just...

Alvin  49:23  

Janelle Jolley  49:24  
Bullshit. Motherfu- just a bowl of bullshit. Okay, we understand that. Do you think that it's still worth your time, energy and talents, and people who are similar to you, people like me, people, like you know, who we volunteered with or you know, who we worked with when we campaign. Do you think it's you think it's still reasonable for us to work inside the party to change it? And I ask this because- you know Dr. Heyman?

Yes. Love her, yeah.  

Okay, I'll be interviewing her soon.

Alvin  50:04  
Oh, you're interviewing her soon? Oh!

Janelle Jolley  50:06  
Mm-hm, like after Thanksgiving. You know she ain't no bitch. She ain't no soft ass, pussy ass DNC apologist. Like, she don't, mm-mm. But she, it seems to me and I'll ask her more about this when we sit down and talk, like, it seems to me that she still thinks it is a useful expenditure of energy and time to work within the party to push it left. And I don't understand why. When I sit down with her and talk to her, hopefully, I'll learn that. But I look at people like her who are, you know, older than us and who have more experience in terms of, you know, the fights being waged politically within the Democratic Party. I'm like, "Okay, if she still thinks that the Democratic Party is the vehicle, maybe I need to calm down with my impetuousness and my disgust with it?" I don't know. I'm not saying that that's the conclusion I'll come to, but when I look at people like her, I'm like, "I don't know, maybe it is useful?" But, I don't know, I'm just wondering how you think about that? Do you think like, "Motherfuck these guys!" Or like, Imma be a thorn in your side from, you know, and still kind of call myself a Democrat or, you know, identify as a Democrat, or whatever?" Like, how do you think about it?

Alvin  51:23  
Wow. I don't...I mean, I still don't know but I'll think out loud with you. And I'll, sort of, let you know where my head's at.

Janelle Jolley  51:32  
Yeah, please.  

Alvin  51:34  
I do think it's, at least on a local level, if the party can't- because I think the local Democratic Party is sometimes wildly different than what the National Democratic Party is standing for. And I think it's easier to enact change on a local level. And sometimes' can see the fruits of your results a little more. And that's part of the reason why I moved from a national campaign to a local campaign. I do think folks like Dr. Cho are right in is maybe easier to enact change from within?

Janelle Jolley  52:30  
Is it though?

Alvin  52:31  
I don't know!

Janelle Jolley  52:32  
I mean, it's something I wrestle with. My-

Alvin  52:35  
Yeah, I'm wrestling with that too, right now. And-

Janelle Jolley  52:37  
Where I'm- where I wrestle with...what I'm, here's what I'm clear on.

Alvin  52:41  

Janelle Jolley  52:41  
What I'm clear on that we know better, in terms of what people need, and being unrelenting and demanding those things and not compromising, there is no turning back. There is no turning back and moderating that position like, "Oh, no. Medicare for all? Who'll want it?" Like your booty boy. That's not an option. We are at the point now, many of us, not all of us, some people are still, fucking, coming along.

Alvin  53:15  

Janelle Jolley  53:17  
I need to develop some patients with them. We what we know is that healthcare is a human right. And if you're going to claim to be a party that believes in science...that can't just be a bromide or a platitude you use as a rhetorical device to insinuate that your opponents are stupid or unlearned. If you believe in science, you then must believe in the body of science that says people going to the doctor more regularly helps to catch you know, issues earlier and leads to better healthier outcomes. You must then believe in the science that says, you know, the disproportionate provision, not access but provision, of medical care to black women is what has them dying in maternity wards at an alarming rate, etc, etc, etc. So, we're not going to start, you know, becoming bitch ass about the things that we know that we need to live dignified, healthy, happy lives. That's not an option. What I wrestle with is, how do we think about the things that we need to do to get there? And I'm extremely torn about the body of... about the idea that, "No, you still have to do that from inside the democratic party." Because from what I've seen- and I haven't been political my entire life the way I am now, obviously. But from my current understanding is that they do they will not do this of their own volition. They do not want to. Like, they do not. So what do you do in the face of that? And I don't know if I'm being too dramatic and extreme in thinking that. But by all intents and purposes, they read pew research, you know, polling, and there's, you know, what is it? Over 70% of people, people of both parties, now, you know, support Medicare for All.

Alvin  55:21  
Yeah, that's right.

Janelle Jolley  55:22  
They can read these polls, so why the fuck don't we have it? We know why. But I'm saying, you know what I mean? Like, why don't we have it? So what do we have to do to get there? And where I am in my analysis is, there has to- we- it would serve us better, and I could be wrong, but I think it was serve us better to put- to exert pressure, or become organized, because we are very unorganized right now, but become organized and exert pressure on the actors...exert pressure on the systems that exert pressure on our politicians at a federal level. I think you're right that you do have- there- local politics is more responsive. Generally speaking, not always. But we have to exert pressure on the systems that force their hand. And that's where I am in my analysis.

Alvin  56:14  

Janelle Jolley  56:14  
And I don't know that that has to be done fucking with the hoe ass Democratic Party anymore. That's where I am.

Alvin  56:21  
Yeah. I think that's fair. And I...I don't think I've come to a conclusion yet. But I-

Janelle Jolley  56:30  
You're still thinking through it.

Alvin  56:30  
I'm still thinking through it, yeah. But it's...but I'm still new to all this so I think maybe I might be more idealistic right now? But I also think that given our experiences, especially with the 2020 primary, and the 2016 primary, it's hard not to...just say, "Fuck the DNC." Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  57:00  
Yeah. And now like, Heyman wants me to- she wants me to run for California ADEM-

Alvin  57:05  
A? Oh!

Janelle Jolley  57:06  
I was like, "Really? Wow!"

Alvin  57:07  
Janelle, you should!

Janelle Jolley  57:08  
I registered and-

Alvin  57:10  
You did? Okay. I was-

Janelle Jolley  57:11  
Whatever. Cuz she's my boss, I do whatever the fuck she tells me to do. But it's just like, really? Like, how do you- how, after this year, do you even want to deal with these hoes?

Alvin  57:20  

Janelle Jolley  57:21  
Because I don't- I- there's- they are the elite...or the players, you know, in the party, I hold them beneath contempt.

Alvin  57:32  

Janelle Jolley  57:33  
So it's just like, why do you still- it's like- cuz in my mind, and again, I'm being dramatic. But in my mind, I'm just like, "This is an abusive boyfriend, girl!" And just like Fantasia say, "If you don't want me, then don't talk to me. Go ahead and free yourself!" Like, you don't give a fuck about people like me and the things that I am unapologetic in demanding. So like, do we even need to- can we part ways? So, I don't know, I'm still...I'm still thinking through that.

Alvin  58:01  

Janelle Jolley  58:02  
I'm sure they'll have a very reasonable way for me to think about it. But that's where I am-

Alvin  58:08  
And she's been in this a long time. I feel like she's- I'm actually very interested in hearing your conversation with her.

Janelle Jolley  58:13  
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure there's a level of wisdom that I don't have because I haven't lived as long as she has and had the experience-

Alvin  58:17  
But you also have experiences that she doesn't have, and I think your experience is valid. And I'm sort of in between. I don't know what's next for me. But yeah.

Janelle Jolley  58:33  
Do you- and, again, tell me if I'm being too romantic about this. But I am- because I said this to Liz when we were talking. Like, I don't know the exact formation of things that- I don't know the exact form that things will take to get us things like, you know, Medicare For All, Green New Deal, da, da, da. I don't know the exact form or the exact impetus, but I do know what it will look like, and it will look like the Sanders primary campaign. You understand what I'm saying? Like, it would have to be- it will be- and I don't know when, I don't know how, I don't know. But I can see it in the distance because I saw it with my own eyes. You understand what I'm saying?

Alvin  59:22  

Janelle Jolley  59:22  
I saw it, I smelled it, I touched it, I tasted it. I did not imagine it. But it will, whatever that thing is, it will be a movement wherein it's widespread, like people from all walks of life, who have a clear and unambiguous understanding of the stakes and what they stand to benefit and them, you know, sacrificing their time, their talent, their energy, you know, etc. and working together in lockstep. Like, that's not to say that we, you know, we don't have our disagreements or, you know, that I fucking just loved everybody that I met on the campaign. But we all are very clear and are in lockstep with this thing. So, I do know the contours of it and it will look like the Sanders primary campaign. I just don't know what that...whether they- is it just like a coordinated and, you know, a surgically pinpointed, you know, strike where, you know, we we all, you know, those of us in the sectors that, you know, are striking, you know, are supported by the rest of us, you know, giving our money every month to support the strikers, as they, you know, as they hold out against- or, you know, whatever. I don't know, but I do know that the general contours of it will look like the Sanders campaign. And that's what keeps me sane. It's just that like, I didn't imagine this, this is not a fever dream. I didn't- like, this was not a daydream, you know? I've lived and breathed this for several months, along with millions of other people. So like, it was concrete. I touched, I felt it, I lived it.

Alvin  1:01:06  

Janelle Jolley  1:01:06  
And because I lived it, I know that it can happen again. But, so, I mean, that's the thing that...that's the thing that like-

Alvin  1:01:13  
But isn't that beautiful that it was- that we've experienced what that could look like and it's tangible and it can happen? And I think that's it's amazing that we got to be a part of that.

Janelle Jolley  1:01:25  
Yeah, that's right. And I'm hope- and I missed the thing yesterday. There was like a Bernie super volunteers reunion thing-

Alvin  1:01:32  
Oh, was there?

Janelle Jolley  1:01:33  
Yeah, yeah. And I RSVP'd for but I got caught up doing something, so I missed it. And Nina Turner was speaking.

Alvin  1:01:39  

Janelle Jolley  1:01:39  
I love her. And she's on my list of people to talk to. I don't know how that's gonna happen, but-

Alvin  1:01:43  
Yeah. You'll talk to her.

Janelle Jolley  1:01:46  
That's right. I'm gonna ring a bell, light a candle, chant, pray, fall to the ground. Anyway, I'm- I don't know this to be true, but I get the suspicion, or I have an inkling that they're trying to kind of reconstitute the network of volunteers toward being able to harness some mass popular political action. Because that was the secret sauce, you know what I mean? Like, the reason he was such a threat is because he had a broad base of support. And when you have a...when you have your hooks into that many people across the country who are agitating for the improvement of the material conditions of their lives, like that's fucking scary to the establishment. Because you can- that does lend itself to you being able to organize, you know, more efficiently, you know, a strike or, you know, protests or, you know, or whatever. But, to organize, like, you have to have people. So that was the secret sauce. So I think if they're able- and it's not going to be easy because, you know, we're all fuckin, you know, dejected, we're in a pandemic, we're scared, we're, you know- it's not easy to sit down and be in a room with people, you know what I mean? So it's not going to be easy, but I get the sense that they're trying to do that so that that level of popular support can be exerted, again on the political system? And, I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing how that takes shape. I'll not, you know, I'll fucking attend the next meeting.

Alvin  1:03:24  
I hope it happens because there's so much untapped, sort of, power there. And I think that you're right, that was, sort of like, the Sanders' campaign, sort of, secret weapon was just all those people that have the same vision that we all do. And so it's, I think it's beautiful. And I hope it doesn't go-

Janelle Jolley  1:03:45  
Would you be- you know, again, we're imagining right now.

Alvin  1:03:49  

Janelle Jolley  1:03:49  
We're just generating what this might look like. Would you be able to be a part of it? Like, to throw your hat in the ring to...

Alvin  1:04:00  
I would love to if the opportunity comes.

Janelle Jolley  1:04:02  

Alvin  1:04:02  

Janelle Jolley  1:04:03  
What what shape do you think it might take? Or, you don't know?

Alvin  1:04:07  
I don't know.

Janelle Jolley  1:04:07  
You can't even see that far.

Alvin  1:04:08  
Yeah. Sorry, I feel like a lot of my responses to you lately are, "I don't know," but-

Janelle Jolley  1:04:12  
No, no! Of course.

Alvin  1:04:15  
These are all things-

Janelle Jolley  1:04:16  
But, none of us know.

Alvin  1:04:16  

Janelle Jolley  1:04:17  
Are you hopeful, though, that...

Alvin  1:04:20  
I think I'm a hopeful person. And I do think it will...the dream, if you will, will be realized in my lifetime, in our lifetimes. I do hope so. And I do think we are, even if slowly, we are moving left.

Janelle Jolley  1:04:44  

Alvin  1:04:46  
Actually, I don't know about that. Maybe I take that back. But I just look at some of the younger volunteers at our campaign? Because even on the Bernie campaign I remember there were high schoolers that were coming in. They're like, "Oh, this is, uh, this is my winter break."

Janelle Jolley  1:05:07  
Yep. Yep.

Alvin  1:05:08  
"And I am," instead of, you know, traveling, and back then you could still travel. They were like, "No, I decided- I told my parents I didn't want to do anything. I just wanted to come to the office every day." So I remember there were students that were coming in. High school junior, senior, students who, instead of doing anything fun for winter break, they came in every day to phone bank and everyday to help our-

Janelle Jolley  1:05:27  
Well, just to help out. Like, even if there wasn't anything to do, I remember young people coming like, "Okay, if there's nothing for me, I'll just sweep the floor."

Alvin  1:05:35  
Yes! Nothing was too- no tasks were too small for them. And that gives me a lot of hope. I just think, I guess, like I told you earlier, I was definitely not aware in high school, not even in college. It wasn't until I after I graduated. So that makes me know that we are in good hands. That the future generation, you know- and young people voted for Bernie!

Janelle Jolley  1:06:00  
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite a bit.

Alvin  1:06:01  
And I know that the age group, like 18, to late 20s, it was heavily for Bernie and that makes me hopeful. And that makes me think that better things are ahead.

Janelle Jolley  1:06:15  
How much time do I have? How much more time do I have?

Alvin  1:06:17  
Oh, my boy is angrily texting me. I have to go to. It's 5:47.

Janelle Jolley  1:06:21  
Oh, fuck! One last question.

Alvin  1:06:22  
Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Janelle Jolley  1:06:23  
Do you- this is inside baseball and if you're not allowed to say, that's fine.

Alvin  1:06:26  

Janelle Jolley  1:06:26  
But do you- are you...are you a little angry that the campaign didn't, like- at the point where, you know, it was clearn what was happening, what the game was in the primary. Were you a little angry that he didn't just set out at the moment where it was just like, "Oh, they're trying to fuck me again," to run independently or third party? Were you a little angry at the campaign or the people in charge of the campaign? Or did you expect that to happen? Like, were you just like, "We can't just let this go."

Alvin  1:06:58  
I think the campaign ran a very traditional campaign and really heavily invested in the early states and hoped for momentum. And I think that's what a lot of the other campaigns did, too.

Janelle Jolley  1:07:10  
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was the sound strategy.

Alvin  1:07:13  

Janelle Jolley  1:07:13  
I could not have foreseen what happened with, you know-

Alvin  1:07:15  
Yeah. I think it was the first time in US politics where, in a competitive primary, where the candidate who won the first three races did not clinch the nomination. So I think, I really think that it was something that blindsided a lot of- even though in retrospect, it's like, "Oh, we should have all seen it because there's this sort of thing happened in 2016 and it's definitely happened again in 2020." But I think, even with myself, I had such a...I just had...I just thought we were gonna win. I felt like we were on a good momentum, and the right trajectory. And so I don't really fault the campaign for maybe not being prepared for that? Because who knew this was all gonna happen-

Janelle Jolley  1:07:15  
At that point, after-

Alvin  1:08:08  
Oh, after!

Janelle Jolley  1:08:08  
When things started, do you harbor a little bit of like, "Uhh, come on, man." Like, to quote Joe Biden, like, "Ah, come on, just break away." Like, you can't let this apparatus, this wide swath of people, you know, breaking off on your own, you know, fuck the loyalty oath or whatever the fuck. Like, the only way is keeping this intact as a third party run to have any leverage on the party and taking votes away?

Alvin  1:08:41  
I don't because Bernie had consistently, sort of, promised that he would not do that. Had I wished he'd done that? Maybe, I don't...but I think he also has received so much hate and so much unfair criticism during 2016 when he when he stayed in their primary, even though they said that there's no way you can overcome, sort of, Hillary's delegates at that point. And so I think that takes a toll on you.

Janelle Jolley  1:09:18  

Alvin  1:09:18  
As like a late 70 year old man, you're just getting so much hate from the party and everything. So, I do think it was a difficult decision. I know a lot of people wanted it. Yeah. So I don't fault Bernie or the campaign for not doing it, but I think it could have been effective if we had gone that route.

Janelle Jolley  1:09:42  
Yea, yeah.

Alvin  1:09:43  

Janelle Jolley  1:09:44  
Okay. Well, I'll wrap up so your friend isn't angry with you. But I think I'm going to press you to start thinking-

Alvin  1:09:54  
Oh, please, yes.

Janelle Jolley  1:09:56  
About, like, what it will look like. Cuz I want- I think we are, all of us, including ?, I think we're all deeply lacking...engaging our political imagination to presuppose the future we want to live in?

Alvin  1:10:10  

Janelle Jolley  1:10:10  
I know that it's very overwhelming. Like, everything sucks right now. Just, goddamn. Just, oof. But I'm going to press you on that to start thinking about it and what that could look like. And I'm sure I will have you back on to discuss what you're thinking about.  

Alvin  1:10:22  
Oh, I would love to be back. Yeah.

Janelle Jolley  1:10:23  
It's not that you're going to have a clear like, "Here's a document for how to do-" not like that. But just like, now that we're here, how do we as a- I don't know if you consider yourself a progressive or leftist. But, now that we're here, how do we...think about and organize things to go in the direction that we know things need to go? In a life-giving direction. This is not to say that, you know, again, you're going to have the answer.

Alvin  1:10:56  

Janelle Jolley  1:10:57  
But I think it's critically important that we start engaging these questions and the possible answers because that's what's going to move us through.

Alvin  1:11:07  
I agree. Yeah. Homework. You know what, and homework for me to do in Hawaii cuz I literally have no plans for the next few weeks there. I was gonna be laying on-

Janelle Jolley  1:11:16  
You ain't got nobody lined up in Hawaii?

Alvin  1:11:17  
No, nobody! I'm trying to be safe.

Janelle Jolley  1:11:21  
Well enjoy your time. I'm way too chickenshit to get on a plane right now, but-

Alvin  1:11:24  
I'm actually really nervous tomorrow, but I got tested twice this week.

Janelle Jolley  1:11:28  
Okay, good.

Alvin  1:11:29  
And I-

Janelle Jolley  1:11:30  
I want to see you when you get back.

Alvin  1:11:32  

Janelle Jolley  1:11:32  
We'll get you tested.  

Alvin  1:11:33  
I'll quarantine myself and get tested when I'm back.

Janelle Jolley  1:11:35  
But I do want to have you back on to discuss-

Alvin  1:11:37  

Janelle Jolley  1:11:38  
What it is that you imagine?

Alvin  1:11:39  
Okay. Oh, I love this topic. Okay. Yeah. This is so fun and I feel so honored to be part of this.  

Janelle Jolley  1:11:47  
Thank you for taking time. Thank you for ,you know, coming over here and entertaining your very-

Alvin  1:11:51  
Thank you for not judging me.

Janelle Jolley  1:11:53  
No, I'm not judging! What are you talking about? I would never judge you. But thank you Alvin for coming and sharing your time, your list of sexual problematics-

Alvin  1:12:04  
Oh my god.

Janelle Jolley  1:12:05  
And we hope to have you back to see how- where you are after getting to think through some more about what will be and how we will get there because we already in it.

Alvin  1:12:21  
Yes. Yes.

Janelle Jolley  1:12:22  
It's me and you.

Alvin  1:12:23  

Janelle Jolley  1:12:24  
And millions of other people. We gonna figure it out.

Alvin  1:12:27  
Yeah. Election was just recent, we have- we need to-

Janelle Jolley  1:12:30  
We need to come back from this shit show.

Alvin  1:12:32  
Yeah. And think about the future and what's next.

Janelle Jolley  1:12:35  
That's correct. Because we are not going back.

Alvin  1:12:37  
No. No, no, no. Absolutely not.

Janelle Jolley  1:12:39  
We are not going back. Cuz that was the ghetto and we not doing that. We don't live there no more. Okay, alright. Have a good evening. Please be safe. Tell your friend I said, "Hey," and I want to talk to him soon, too.

Alvin  1:12:52  
Okay. Alirght.

Janelle Jolley  1:12:54  

Alvin  1:12:54  

Janelle Jolley  1:13:00  
So, that was Alvin, who will be back after having done his homework. And I am your host Janelle on What's Left To Do. Don't miss an episode. Now that I think I've straightened out RSS link, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. You know, smash that like button or, you know, whatever the kids are saying now. Okay, see you next week.

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