Janelle Jolley 0:04
Hey, welcome back to What's Left To Do with Janelle. And this is part two, with my boy Alvin, where we really don't have any answers. However, we do have a non sequitur look at politico's he finds attractive, which will make you barf. And he didn't go through an embarrassing lib phase. Miraculously. I don't know how that happened. Oh, and I go off a little bit. Anywho, part two. All right. So when you- talk to me about where things were for you, when you graduated college. You started school, you were still, you know, your frontal cortex was still forming. You know, you had reckless experiences, one of which ended you up in rehab. You got- you came back, though you bounced back. My man is a fighter.
Alvin 1:03
I bounced back, yes!
Janelle Jolley 1:04
And you finished school. And then what was going on with you when you finished school? Like, what were you thinking about?
Alvin 1:13
I think as soon as I graduated, I felt a sense of doom because I felt that I peaked in college.
Janelle Jolley 1:20
What do you mean?
Alvin 1:22
Because I had such a good time in college. Just really the best time of my life. Made some of my best friends there, I was very involved and, you know. Then I was like, "Oh, I don't know if I'm ready for the real world." And, you know, I felt the same way when I left high school, too. I was I was prom king in high school. And I was very involved in student government and everything. And I was like, "Oh, this is- my life is over now." And then I had, you know, a great time in college. And you know what? Post-college, I've had great times in my 20s. I'm still in my twenties, but I'm-
Janelle Jolley 1:53
You don't have to rub it in, Alvin
Alvin 1:54
I'm in my 20s. And I'm really young.
Janelle Jolley 1:58
Talk to me about- so, we've kind of gone through the first half, maybe two thirds of your life. Talk to me-
Alvin 2:06
Two thirds of my life?
Janelle Jolley 2:08
Kind of.
Alvin 2:08
Oh my god. You're right. Yeah. I graduated when I was 21. Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 2:13
So, what were- talk to me about the series of events that led you to the point where you and I met on the campaign. Like, what got you there? How did you get there? And what was- was there awakening along the way? I presume that you, and maybe I'm projecting, I presume that you came into this understanding of your current politic on a journey. So, talk to me about what led you up to the point where we met?
Alvin 2:47
Yeah, so I mentioned I wasn't political at all, because I didn't grow up in a political family. The first time I was really invested in a campaign or really just became more aware and read up on politics was 2016 was when- sorry, Bernie announced he was running 2015, right? So, 2015 when he announced. And I think at that moment I was still supportive of Hillary because I had no idea who Bernie was. But then I learned a little bit more about him, read up on his views, and I thought, "Oh, this is who I want to support, this is who I want to back." I had never- I had never even voted before that. And so that was the first time I registered myself to vote-
Janelle Jolley 3:36
During the 2016 primary?
Alvin 3:37
2016 primary, yeah.
Janelle Jolley 3:39
How would you describe your politics before then? Like, you did not have a politic before?
Alvin 3:44
I don't think I even had a- I even knew what I was for or against. I really just didn't pay attention.
Janelle Jolley 3:53
What was the thing that caused you to pay attention in 2016?
Alvin 3:57
I had people have asked me that. I don't know because it wasn't just like a switch that went off. It was I think, a slow acclamation of just reading up on news and reading up on the policy stances of Clinton and Sanders.
Janelle Jolley 4:20
But let's walk through this.
Alvin 4:21
Okay.
Janelle Jolley 4:21
Because it had to be something. So you weren't really political before, like politics proper, if you will, never really factored into your everyday thoughts. But you- is it that you started reading or consuming news more around 2016? Or other people around you were really, you know, starting to talk a lot about the primaries and that prompted you to read and that's how you got it? Cuz it wasn't just like, "Oh, one day I'm not into it and the next day I am." Like, what got you? Like, what was that kind of like slow, slow rolling of you into it?
Alvin 4:59
I think pre-2016, politics just always seemed so far away from me, so far removed from me. Like, it was something that happened in D.C., and I'm living my life in California. But I think 2016 was when I had recently moved to San Francisco and was surrounding myself with friends that are more conscious of what's going on around the world. And I had, maybe it was Twitter or just Facebook? I know those aren't maybe the best places to get your news-
Janelle Jolley 5:40
No, but if that's where you started-
Alvin 5:41
But I was reading, you know, people's tweets and posts about politics. And for the first time ever I had a politician who spoke to me and who understand what I was going through. And was, it seemed to me, was inclusive of everyone. And I'd never felt really included in conversations that politicians were having. Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 6:11
So you never had a period of being like an embarrassing lib? You know what I mean? Like, you were never like a insufferable goddamn, just like-
Alvin 6:22
No, because I wasn't even aware enough to be one back then.
Janelle Jolley 6:27
Okay. So you went from not really paying attention or caring about politics at all. Like, on either side, it's just kind of like, you know, "I'm Alvin, I'm living my life. We over here. We doin' me." To like, "Oh, now I'm friends with people who are into politics. I moved to San Francisco, I'm friends with people who are more into politics." They are, you know, whatever word you want to use, of a progressive or leftist kind of orientations toward politics. And so that is where you kind of got that keyhole into exposure. And now it's the 2016 primary and you are kind of evaluating the two major candidates on the Democratic ticket, and you are more drawn to Bernie Sanders than Hillary because you saw yourself and I'm gonna say - you can correct me if I'm wrong - you saw yourself and your interests or the needs of the people around you and your community, family represented in his platform. Would that be accurate?
Alvin 7:32
That would be right on the dot, yeah. And I know a lot of people's political journey is they start off maybe as a neoliberal or whatever. Like what you said, maybe an insufferable liberal? But I never had to go through that phase because I-
Janelle Jolley 7:50
You're so blessed.
Alvin 7:51
Because I was exposed to Bernie, sort of, from the get go of my, sort of, the beginning of my political journey. And I was really attracted to that right away. And he he flipped me from apolitical to political.
Janelle Jolley 8:06
Right on. Was there one particular issue that did it?
Alvin 8:11
You know what? No, I can't I can't point to one-
Janelle Jolley 8:14
He's a foxy gentlemen. He was daddy.
Alvin 8:15
I just thought he was great. And I think I was always the - I've always wanted to support the underdog? And at that time it was-
Janelle Jolley 8:25
He was the underdog.
Alvin 8:26
He was the underdog. Yeah! In 2016 Clinton was the anointed candidate, and it was hers to lose.
Janelle Jolley 8:33
Yeah.
Alvin 8:34
And I watched the debate, their very first debate between the two of them. And I thought, "Oh, I can't not support Bernie. He's the progressive candidate."
Janelle Jolley 8:47
So in 2016, you kind of had a political awakening?
Alvin 8:50
Yeah. And it was the first time I ever volunteered for a campaign. I - at that time, Bernie had a - he didn't have an office in SF, I believe, so I think his only office in the Bay Area was Oakland? So I would take the BART all the way from Excelsior to Oakland. And I would, you know, at that time, I think it was mostly just phone banking? I don't think - I don't know if he was knocking on doors or anything. But I would go to the headquarters and get on one of their laptops that they have to loan you and I would just call folks and get people to vote for him.
Janelle Jolley 9:22
So what was your...how did you...what were your thoughts, or how did you perceive the 2016 primary? Like, all of the shit that happened? Do you remember how you were feeling about it?
Alvin 9:38
I remember I was devastated when Bernie lost. It was the first time I really invested my heart and soul into a campaign and it was the first time I, you know, volunteered. And that I wasn't even - even now, I don't think I know everything about politics, but back then I definitely didn't know a lot. But I just knew in my heart that, from the little that I knew the research that I'd done, that if he were elected president that I strongly believe that America would be in a better place. I don't think we would have solved everything. We definitely wouldn't have solved everything, but I think it was gonna change lives. People's lives we're gonna be changed. Folks in the working class were gonna have a seat at the table, at the very least. And I remember being very devastated when he lost. Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 10:30
Did you - what did you think after, you know, the Hillary Clinton nomination - I'm making a face - after Hillary Clinton's the nomination in 2016, what did you - were you - this almost a silly question to ask because we all thought the same thing. Even if you didn't like her, did you think she was a lock to win? Like she's definitely going to beat Donald Trump?
Alvin 10:53
I thought so.
Janelle Jolley 10:54
Yeah, okay.
Alvin 10:54
I definitely thought she was gonna win. And I was like, "Oh, we got this in the bag." And so when November, whenever election day came in 2016, I remember, I think we all remember where we were election day. And I was at my best friend's house, Cynthia's house, and we - I remember just being stunned and just sitting in silence. And we're like, "Oh, the next four years we have we have this clown."
Janelle Jolley 11:20
After the election in 2016, were...what were you think- I mean, I know that there was a moment of shock. We all, whether or not you supported Hillary, there was, you know, a moment of shock. But like, were you still kind of politically engaged at that point? Or did you kind of check out because it's like, "Uhh, this is a clown show. This is like, what the fuck?" Where were you?
Alvin 11:45
I think with me, and with a lot of people that I knew that became activated in 2016, once that button turns on, it's on.
Janelle Jolley 11:56
That's right. It's just like getting ass. You just-
Alvin 11:57
Yeah. This is it! And I've been engaged since! So I do have the Sanders campaign to thank for that. And all the volunteers that really helped me in 2016. And their staff in that office that really helped me get engaged.
Janelle Jolley 12:20
Are there any of the people that you met in 2016 during your time volunteering that, like, y'all got the gang back together again in 2020? Or was it a totally different cast of characters in 2020?
Alvin 12:33
I think because it was in Oakland, I don't know if I've ever kept in touch with - I don't think so. No. Yeah. But when 2020 came around, I got plugged into, you know, the folks in SF that were engaged - Claire being one of them. And, yeah, and sort of I joined this, this club called the Berniecrats and met more folks through there and through Claire, and I was able to get a job on the Sanders Campaign. And, yeah, that's sort of how it happened.
Janelle Jolley 13:07
During Trump's term, were you annoyed by the coverage of him? Or did it seem fine to you? That's a very leading slanted question.
Alvin 13:21
It seemed fine. No just kidding. I was, yeah, very annoyed. I think the media is at fault for his rise to the presidency, and I think enabled him to do a lot of the horrible things he's done during his term. And I...yeah. And I think the media is definitely a culprit. Or, at the very least, they're culpable.
Janelle Jolley 13:51
But did you ever buy the Russiagate stuff?
Alvin 13:54
No.
Janelle Jolley 13:54
Yeah, never. That's why I fuck with you the long ?
Alvin 14:00
And I think it's - it was so annoying for them to buy into this narrative. And I think that putting flames to that really helps Trump in a sense, this year, when he's trying to say that there was election fraud.
Janelle Jolley 14:16
Yeah.
Alvin 14:17
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 14:17
What - why do you think - this is, I'm digressing here. Why do you think you didn't fall for the Russiagate thing? Like, why do you think you didn't buy it and so many other people do?
Alvin 14:26
Because my eyes are open, Janelle. Because I surrounded myself with people who are much more knowledgeable than me and people that have been in the game a lot longer. And I was able to not, I was able to listen to them and not just get their perspective, but different people's perspectives. And I think that's what a lot of people miss out on these days, is they only listen to the perspectives of-
Janelle Jolley 14:57
Rachel Maddows.
Alvin 14:58
Yeah, yeah. And they don't talk to the people on the ground, the people that have been doing this long and are able to look at this through a critical lens.
Janelle Jolley 15:05
Yeah, c'mon.
Alvin 15:06
And so I can't say, "Oh, I figured this all out on my own. That my eyes are open because of my own research, my own knowledge." But it's through people who really-
Janelle Jolley 15:17
The community you surround yourself with.
Alvin 15:18
The community that I surrounded myself with. Yeah, people like Claire, people like you, people that I really trust and want to learn from. Because I'm still a newbie in this whole game.
Janelle Jolley 15:31
It's a process of learning and-
Alvin 15:32
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 15:34
Learning, unlearning, unknowing, interrogating, it never ends.
Alvin 15:39
Yeah. The unlearning part is the hardest part, I think.
Janelle Jolley 15:42
Hey! Come on! Help somebody. What did you have to unlearn?
Alvin 15:49
That politicians, for the most part, don't have your best interest in mind.
Janelle Jolley 15:54
Hey!
Alvin 15:55
They have their - they want to further their career, they want to make money.
Janelle Jolley 15:59
And how do they do that?
Alvin 16:00
How do they do what?
Janelle Jolley 16:01
No, no. How did they do that? I'm trying to pull on a yarn here. For them to further their career, how is that done?
Alvin 16:07
They vote on the side of the folks that are financing their campaigns, and the folks that - the establishment. And I know when people use the word establishment, it's such a blanket statement. But what I mean is, you know, the folks in the leadership and in their party, and they really - it's how they vote and how they... it's not dictated by, "Oh, what's gonna serve my community and the people I represent?" It's, "How am I going to appease these higher officials or people that can get me to places?" And things like that. And it's just a game to them and it's really sad. And I think part of what really drew me to Sanders in 2016 was he wanted money out of politics. He wasn't accepting any sort of PAC money, super PAC money. That really spoke to me. As someone that's not making a lot of money that's not able to, you know, buy a politician, I wanted someone that can speak to me and that can represent me because they want to represent me.
Janelle Jolley 17:25
Right. Hmm. So, you know, back in 2016 happens like, "Look what y'all stupid ass did, you got Trump elected." Part of that's on the DNC for running such a uniquely odious candidate.
Alvin 17:39
Yeah. Sort of - wasn't it the most unfavorable candidate?
Janelle Jolley 17:44
Bro! Listen.
Alvin 17:44
In history, from both sides. The DNC and the RNC, right?
Janelle Jolley 17:49
Well, I mean, the RNC, they had - the RNC establishment was not in favor of Trump, but the rank and file RNC voters and a lot of, a good amount of independents, truth be told, were crazy about him. And that's why he was able to, you know, bitch slap Reince Priebus - that's the worst name on Earth.
Alvin 18:07
Reince Priebus?
Janelle Jolley 18:10
Yeah.
Alvin 18:11
I think that name is so cute.
Janelle Jolley 18:12
I will not allow ?
Alvin 18:16
Reince Priebus? I want to name my kid Reince Priebus. Can I admit something? Do I have permission to speak freely on this podcast?
Janelle Jolley 18:26
Speak freely on this podcast? If you say Reince Preibus could touch it I will ask you to leave.
Alvin 18:31
I think he's sort of cute.
Janelle Jolley 18:32
Absolutely not.
Alvin 18:33
He's like, if you look at photos of him, he's always wearing an oversized suit.
Janelle Jolley 18:37
Is that the type of dude you go for? Gross, nasty?
Alvin 18:42
But I think he's just so awkward. And he's very short. And he's just always sort of out of place in pictures. And I'm like, "There's something endearing about that."
Janelle Jolley 18:50
Okay, you said: very short, awkward, out of place. And to you, now there's hearts in your eyes. What are you saying?
Alvin 18:59
I mean, he's like rosy cheeked and he's like-m
Janelle Jolley 19:01
So you think it's adorable?
Alvin 19:02
It's adorable.
Janelle Jolley 19:03
Not hot, adorable.
Alvin 19:04
It's sort of like you feel sad for them a little bit. Adorable. Like, you're like, "Oh, what are you doing here Reince or Rince?" Like, he's in photos with Trump and all them. Like, you're so out of place here.
Janelle Jolley 19:19
And that makes you - this doesn't make you want to do it to him does it?
Alvin 19:23
He's complicit - I mean, he's not just complicit, he's horrible, and he's a terrible person. And he's enabled Trump.
Janelle Jolley 19:29
But you want to, like, pinch his cheeks, pat his head-
Alvin 19:32
If he's there and he lets me, I would pinch his cheeks. You know, once in a while I have this, I'll have like a - it's not a crush, but I'll find a republican adorable.
Janelle Jolley 19:44
Oh, no but some of them are ok- I mean, some of them you can-
Alvin 19:46
I wanna pull on Marco Rubio's ears.
Janelle Jolley 19:51
Shut the fuck up. You're so stupid.
Alvin 19:53
He has these big oversized ears that does not fit his face.
Janelle Jolley 19:57
He has a funny looking - I would- I-
Alvin 19:59
He tries so hard. It's like that kid in high school that's so nerdy you're like ,"Oh, oh my god." Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 20:05
It's real sad.
Alvin 20:06
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 20:07
What- are there- who do I find adorable as a Republican?
Alvin 20:10
Okay, you have to say something because otherwise I'm-
Janelle Jolley 20:12
Okay, you know who I'm gonna be - okay.
Alvin 20:15
This is no judgment. Like you said, it's a no judgement zone.
Janelle Jolley 20:18
This is a no judgement zone. You're not allowed to snatch any, you know, comrade cards from me. But if I'm being honest - I really hate that I'm about to say this because I think one of my friends who is not a lefty, she's a moderate, she just jizzes over this gentleman. She'll start laughing.
Alvin 20:38
Wait, I have guesses in my head.
Janelle Jolley 20:40
Okay, you get three guesses.
Alvin 20:43
Cuz there's - okay, there's quite a few of them that are daddys.
Janelle Jolley 20:48
Write me down a list, honey. You run down...you run down ?
Alvin 20:51
You're not gonna say Donald Trump, though, right?
Janelle Jolley 20:51
Come on. Come on.
Alvin 20:58
Oh my god. No, I dont want-
Janelle Jolley 21:00
Top five Republican zaddies.
Alvin 21:03
I can't believe this is where the-
Janelle Jolley 21:03
This is problematic.
Alvin 21:04
This is where the podcast is-
Janelle Jolley 21:06
Yeah, no. This is- this is okay.
Alvin 21:07
Did you ever think that this was gonna go here?
Janelle Jolley 21:09
I wanted it to go here, so...
Alvin 21:10
You know who I do think is also pretty hot? He's the Secretary of Housing and HUD. Carson something?
Janelle Jolley 21:19
Ben Carson?
Alvin 21:20
Ben Carson!
Janelle Jolley 21:21
You have to get out of here right-
Alvin 21:21
He's adorable.
Janelle Jolley 21:23
No.
Alvin 21:24
I mean, he's - I'm saying to the audience out there: I hate them all, they're horrible people. But you can be a good looking horrible person.
Janelle Jolley 21:34
You would throw it back for Ben Carson?
Alvin 21:36
He's like a grandpa. Like, he's just- and he's also so-
Janelle Jolley 21:39
You would fuck grandpa?
Alvin 21:40
I would not- okay.
Janelle Jolley 21:41
This is my list!
Alvin 21:42
Let's let's be clear, I'm not gonna fuck him.
Janelle Jolley 21:44
Top five fuckables that happen to have an R in it. That's what I'm going for. Not just adorable old fogies, because they're all kind of like-
Alvin 21:53
Oh, I think a lot of people are creaming their pants for Paul Ryan, but I don't see it. I don't see it.
Janelle Jolley 22:00
Okay, here's-
Alvin 22:01
He's not cute to me at all.
Janelle Jolley 22:04
Vomit. Okay, here's the thing. Paul Ryan is- I do not think he is attractive, but he does have a decent body.
Alvin 22:12
He does!
Janelle Jolley 22:12
And he's that guy- I feel like Paul Ryan was that guy, that white guy you met either in college or right after, that you could finally wear him down to go with you and the rest of your coworkers to a bar. You were pleasantly surprised that he kind of had rhythm, but that's where it ended. It was just- like he has a like, "Oh, you're surprisingly not as lame as I thought." But he doesn't do it for me. Like I wouldn't-
Alvin 22:32
He doesn't do it for me either. I don't see it at all.
Janelle Jolley 22:46
I see what some people with cataracts see, but-
Alvin 22:49
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 22:50
But no, that's not it.
Alvin 22:52
Like, if I had to choose. Like, you have to flag one person.
Janelle Jolley 22:57
Yeah ok. Then, Paul would be the peak, but not- but only because Mitch McConnell doesn't have a penis. You know what I mean? It's just how that works.
Alvin 23:07
Or a neck. It's like-
Janelle Jolley 23:08
Or a- it's real gross.
Alvin 23:11
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 23:11
Okay, you didn't give me your top five fuckables!
Alvin 23:13
Okay. I mean, they're not all, like, hottie, but if I had to pick five-
Janelle Jolley 23:19
Yeah, if you had to.
Alvin 23:16
And I just want to make clear one more time, I do not agree with their politics. They're horrible people. But if I had to pick one- pick five. We're gonna have to look- we're going to have to Google how to really pronounce his name. Rinse?
Janelle Jolley 23:34
We're gonna call him Rinse.
Alvin 23:35
Rinse, like Reince Priebus?
Janelle Jolley 23:38
I am so sad that that's- he's on your list, but okay.
Alvin 23:41
Marco Rubio. I think he's- his ears are- just something about his ears just make me- like it makes my pussy wet. Oh god, just like, "Oh, I wanna-"
Janelle Jolley 23:54
Oh, that's the Christ.
Alvin 23:58
Well, what about-
Janelle Jolley 23:58
Marco Rubio makes you moist?
Alvin 24:00
A little bit.
Janelle Jolley 24:02
What is-
Alvin 24:03
You don't see it?
Janelle Jolley 24:04
Listen, Imma write all this off. This is rehab. This your rehab brain talking because this is not it! This your rehab brain- go ahead-
Alvin 24:13
Okay, out of everybody that was- the whole primary, during the Republican primary in 2016. He was the best looking out of all of them. Okay, tell me another- who? Who?
Janelle Jolley 24:13
No, no. You get three more. We get five fuckables. Go ahead. So Reince-ass, Marco-
Alvin 24:33
I just feel like I'm going to get myself in trouble. I think- okay, I will say Ivanka and Donald Trump Jr., they're a snack.
Janelle Jolley 24:48
Oh, you're picking a- okay, that's-
Alvin 24:51
Right?
Janelle Jolley 24:52
No. I mean, I'm not gonna-
Alvin 24:53
They're good looking for the Republican party.
Janelle Jolley 24:56
I mean, they're good looking because they don't have regular- they have rich people face. Like, they're able to buy the work that- I thought you- I thought these were all going to be men.
Alvin 25:05
Okay, okay, okay. Let's just pick Donald Trump Jr. is a good look- and I think that's it. I don't think there's any more than that.
Janelle Jolley 25:11
Okay. This is- this makes me...
Alvin 25:14
You're like disgusted with me.You just cannot look me in the eyes. I just want everyone to know that Janelle is no longer looking me in the eyes during this conversation.
Janelle Jolley 25:22
I can't do it because now this is...you've taken me to a place that I did-
Alvin 25:27
I asked if I could speak freely earlier.
Janelle Jolley 25:28
Yeah, I mean, and now I want you back in bondage because, whew!
Alvin 25:33
I;m trying to think if there's anyone else I'm missing? I think that's it. I don't- because it is an it's an ugly bunch, the Republican Party. But those people stand out to me because everyone else is so unattractive. Do you think Melania's pretty?
Janelle Jolley 25:49
I think Melania's prettier than Ivanka.
Alvin 25:49
I think Melania's gorgeous.
Janelle Jolley 25:52
I think she's prettier than Ivanka. She's a- Melania's a legitimately attractive woman.
Alvin 25:57
She's beautiful.
Janelle Jolley 25:58
I don't know if it's those little beady eyes, or her- she has great bone structure. She's pretty. And she don't talk a lot. That's why I think she's allowed to be pretty. She don't pop off that much.
Alvin 26:08
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 26:09
She has that moody, like rich model wife thing going.
Alvin 26:13
Yeah, like she's always upset about something, and I like that. Like, very pouty.
Janelle Jolley 26:19
Okay, who are my problematic-
Alvin 26:22
Yeah, I want to hear it now because I would like to flip the table and judge you.
Janelle Jolley 26:30
So- my friend Christina is going to start hollering. Zaddy, if we're being honest, even though I hate to admit this. Zaddy: Mitt Romney. That's a good looking mormon.
Alvin 26:43
Oh! I forgot about that dude.
Janelle Jolley 26:45
Yeah, okay, thank you.
Alvin 26:45
Okay, okay. Mitt Romney, there we go.
Janelle Jolley 26:47
Zaddy. I mean, you know, he...he probably can't help but to...fuck like a Mormon. But, okay, fine.
Alvin 26:57
I was about to make it Mormon joke, but I held my tongue
Janelle Jolley 27:00
No, please. Let it fly.
Alvin 27:01
But you did it.
Janelle Jolley 27:02
Yes, I did it for you.
Alvin 27:07
Uh-huh.
Janelle Jolley 27:07
Zaddy.
Alvin 27:07
Mm-hmm.
Janelle Jolley 27:07
He's not hot, per se. Like, he's not hot at all, actually. But he has a very sultry voice? This is this- I'm going to regret saying this out loud. He has a very sultry voice: Jeb Bush.
Alvin 27:24
Oh! That's a surprising one. Okay.
Janelle Jolley 27:27
He has a sultry voice. He's not a- he's not- I mean, he's not ugly. He's a old white guy. But a sulty voice.
Alvin 27:32
Wait, what about his brother, George? Who's better looking?
Janelle Jolley 27:38
There's...I can't separate George W. Bush-
Alvin 27:41
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 27:42
From the Egypt and butcher of Baghdad that I understand him to be associated, he'll never be attractive to me.
Alvin 27:47
Okay.
Janelle Jolley 27:48
I would take Jeb. I would take Jeb over George any day.
Alvin 27:50
You'd take Jeb over George. Okay.
Janelle Jolley 27:52
Who else? Who else is a good looking Republican?
Alvin 28:00
You know who I think is hot?
Janelle Jolley 28:02
Who?
Alvin 28:03
She was the ambassador... of something. Haley- Nikki Haley? Haley Nikki? I think she's hot.
Janelle Jolley 28:12
Really?
Alvin 28:12
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 28:13
H-O-T?
Alvin 28:14
What?
Janelle Jolley 28:15
Really?
Alvin 28:16
Yeah!
Janelle Jolley 28:17
No.
Alvin 28:18
I think she's really cool- she's like a badass. I think she's really good looking. What about Democrats? Let's talk about that.
Janelle Jolley 28:26
Okay, you have to give me your top five fuckable Democrats.
Alvin 28:29
Okay, here's- I want to fuck.
Janelle Jolley 28:32
Okay.
Alvin 28:32
And I will do-
Janelle Jolley 28:32
You mean affirmatively?
Alvin 28:33
Everything in my power to get there.
Janelle Jolley 28:35
Okay.
Alvin 28:36
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 28:36
Who?
Alvin 28:36
Pete Buttigieg.
Janelle Jolley 28:39
Bitch!
Alvin 28:40
He's so cute to me! I have a crush on him.
Janelle Jolley 28:43
You don't think he's gay for clout?
Alvin 28:45
And- huh?
Janelle Jolley 28:45
You don't think he's gay for clout?
Alvin 28:48
No! No one's gay for clout.
Janelle Jolley 28:49
You gotta clout chase in the Democratic party!
Alvin 28:53
Really?
Janelle Jolley 28:53
That, like, gets you to the front of the line.
Alvin 28:55
Oh my god. His face? I want to-
Janelle Jolley 28:58
Are you being serious?
Alvin 28:59
I'm serious. And I- what I will once again have to say this- I did not vote for him.
Janelle Jolley 29:05
I'm sending you back to ? because your eyes do not...your eyes are not functioning.
Alvin 29:07
Oh, I love him.
Janelle Jolley 29:08
I mean, he's not- put the fact that I cant stand him aside.
Alvin 29:12
He speaks six languages, Janelle!
Janelle Jolley 29:14
Bitch, what- I mean, you know, lick my balls. I don't care. Eww!
Alvin 29:18
Oh my god. I just think-
Janelle Jolley 29:19
I mean, he's a good looking guy but I can't separate how he looks from him being just- having the energy, the ultimate energy of a dweeb.
Alvin 29:30
Of a rat, yeah.
Janelle Jolley 29:33
Of a rat.
Alvin 29:34
I think with- the problem with me is I'm able to separate those. And if I-
Janelle Jolley 29:38
Do you think he's a top or bottom? Or switch? Or a flex?
Alvin 29:38
Top.
Janelle Jolley 29:38
You think he's a top?
Alvin 29:43
Wait, actually, I don't know. Cuz I'm looking at Chasten.
Janelle Jolley 29:46
You want him to be a top.
Alvin 29:47
I'm actually a top...which is surprising.
Janelle Jolley 29:50
All the time?
Alvin 29:50
All the time.
Janelle Jolley 29:51
Seriously?
Alvin 29:51
I've bottomed three times in my life.
Janelle Jolley 29:53
Oh!
Alvin 29:54
And they were all in college and I hated it.
Janelle Jolley 29:55
I would never-
Alvin 29:56
But everyone is always surprised when they hear that, yeah.
Janelle Jolley 30:01
Huh!
Alvin 30:01
Yeah. yeah.
Janelle Jolley 30:03
I would have never- I mean that's-
Alvin 30:04
But I think I would- I had promised myself I would never bottom again, but I would do it for Pete Buttigieg.
Janelle Jolley 30:10
You would throw it back for Pete-
Alvin 30:12
I would do it.
Janelle Jolley 30:12
That's who we're making exceptions for?
Alvin 30:14
That's what- that's the only person that we're all about making an exception for.
Janelle Jolley 30:18
I don't know if I can handle that.
Alvin 30:20
Can I have my coat back?
Janelle Jolley 30:23
You're going to have to wind this down right now. Wow! Okay. I don't know that I wanted to learn that about you today but, here we are.
Alvin 30:34
Got a little more than he bargained for.
Janelle Jolley 30:36
So Pete- is that? I'm-
Alvin 30:38
Pete is number- and not just number one and Democratic. Number one...for everything.
Janelle Jolley 30:43
Are you being serious?
Alvin 30:44
Well, Brad Pitt and then Pete Buttigieg.
Janelle Jolley 30:48
Dawg. That is a continuum. What?
Alvin 30:51
And that is- it also changes. Sometimes it's Pete number one, Brad number two.
Janelle Jolley 30:56
I really don't know if you're- I don't know if you're fucking with me, right now or if you're being extremely honest
Alvin 31:00
I'm not fucking with you.
Janelle Jolley 31:00
Are we serious?
Alvin 31:01
Yeah! Okay, but I would, obviously, if I...like I obviously, if I am his hus- when I am his husband, I am going to, you know, talk some sense into him and be like, "Hey, Pete. Petey, it's time to adopt Medicare for All into your platform. And I'm gonna, you know, you need to sign onto the Green New Deal. And you need to, you know, give a call...right now call Bernie and talk about- learn from him." And then I would support him for his run for...he's gonna have to change a lot.
Janelle Jolley 31:35
If he- if Pete is your number one, I'm-
Alvin 31:37
Well, to be fair, sometimes number two.
Janelle Jolley 31:37
I'm clenching my butt cheeks right now.
Alvin 31:38
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 31:38
Who is 2, 3, 4 and 5?
Alvin 31:44
In the Democratic Party or in tot- overall?
Janelle Jolley 31:48
Democrat! We ran down-
Alvin 31:49
Oh, we're going the- okay, right. Democratic Party. There is- there's truly no one that can hold a candle to Pete.
Janelle Jolley 31:57
Alvin, what is going on in your brain?
Alvin 32:00
We are talking about people- their looks, Janelle. I'm not talking about who they are as a person.
Janelle Jolley 32:07
Okay, so it's Pete and nobody- you ain't got eyes for nobody else in the Democratic Party?
Alvin 32:13
Oh, I have a crush on Andrew Cuomo's brother.
Janelle Jolley 32:17
Okay. Now, that- see, that makes sense.
Alvin 32:18
What's his name? Chris Cuomo. I think he's hot. He has a really good body. If you go on his Instagram and, there's some shirtless pics of him.
Janelle Jolley 32:25
You're such a creep.
Alvin 32:26
But that's it. But, yeah, I mean, he's not part of-
Janelle Jolley 32:28
He is good- now, he is unimpeachabley good looking.
Alvin 32:31
Oh yeah.
Janelle Jolley 32:31
I could unders-
Alvin 32:32
You see it, right?
Janelle Jolley 32:33
I- Oh, oh, I see.
Alvin 32:36
And Don Lemon. Is that his name? Oh, my God. He's gay too, right?
Janelle Jolley 32:42
He's so gay. But that's not the point. The point is-
Alvin 32:46
But, I mean, he's also not-
Janelle Jolley 32:47
We're going- if- okay, here's the x and y axis.
Alvin 32:50
Yeah? And just so the audience knows, Janelle is doing an actual graph with her hands.
Janelle Jolley 32:57
Here's the x and y axis. Y axis is personality.
Alvin 33:02
Uh-huh.
Janelle Jolley 33:02
Raw personality, from zero to infinity. What time is it?
Alvin 33:06
It's 5:08.
Janelle Jolley 33:06
Okay.
Alvin 33:07
And I have to leave at 5:30.
Janelle Jolley 33:10
Oh, fuck. Okay, we have to speed through this sexual nature of our politics. I'm super confused about your list of sexuals but because I've already dedicated my life to loving you, it's okay. Now, what- tell me about where- how you- like, what went into you deciding to be a part of the campaign? Can you tell your friend six o'clock? Do you have-
Alvin 33:40
Yes, six o'clock.
Janelle Jolley 33:41
Okay, okay, okay.
Alvin 33:44
I had already taken a break from tech then to pursue comedy. And so I had the time.
Janelle Jolley 33:51
Full time?
Alvin 33:51
Full time, yeah. So I had the time. And, you know, unfortunately, I can't say that I was, you know, so busy in comedy that I couldn't take another gig. So, or another job. So I was there sort of at the right place at the right time. I had known Claire, who you know, and I was actually knocking on doors for Bernie at a canvassing event that Claire was hosting. And I had just after the canvassing event I had casually mentioned to her, "Yeah, I'm sort of free these days. Because I'm not getting booked that much," those months. And then they, Claire was like, "Oh, well we actually have an opening at the Sanders campaign and you should apply and interview for it." So I thought, you know, "Why not? I am already volunteering so much for Bernie, might as well get paid for it."
Janelle Jolley 34:45
Yeah.
Alvin 34:45
And so I interviewed for it with her and, had a formal interview with her, and got it and, yeah.
Janelle Jolley 34:54
Relative to 2016, what were your thoughts about his chances in 2020?
Alvin 35:00
I think I'm a...I've always been a realist. And I think I knew that the establishment was gonna do everything in their power to make sure he's not the nominee. So I really wasn't surprised when he wasn't the nominee. But I also had a sense of hope. And I was trying to be optimistic about the whole thing. And things were looking good for him and for our campaign leading up to Super Tuesday. I thought- he had won-
Janelle Jolley 35:32
Okay, okay.
Alvin 35:32
Yeah?
Janelle Jolley 35:33
Here's what we're gonna do, because this part got edited out with Liz.
Alvin 35:35
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 35:36
Okay, let's run the tape. Just because when I look back on what happened with the 2020 Democratic primary, sometimes I have to remind myself, "No, you're not crazy to look at how things shook out and just have come away with this extreme disgust because of how anti-democratic the primary was. But the fall of 2019, you know, he had been, you know, he had steadily been, you know, rising in the polls the whole year because there had been, you know, drama ups and downs with, you know, Kamala. Like, she was everybody person for a second, like she had a flash in the pan moment. She fell off. It was really looking like, you know, Joe was the heir apparent but Pokey had a moment, that's what I call Elizabeth Warren because Petty Pocahontas.
Alvin 36:25
Oh, okay, okay.
Janelle Jolley 36:26
Pokey had a moment where it looked like it was hers to lose.
Alvin 36:29
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 36:30
And then she had that abominable rollout of her Medicare for all plan. Which just alighted for everyone that she's a wolf in sheep's clothing. But, you know, homeboy had the heart attack, that was not a good time for me. But then, you know, then he came back!
Alvin 36:45
AOC and the squad endorsed- or, three of those-
Janelle Jolley 36:48
That's right. He- like, everything he- it was just, he- it was that, it was the fable of the tortoise and the hare. Then we get to the first contest and it's like, "Oh, actually, none of these polls-," and we should know that polls don't mean motherfuck right now, but all these polls had it wrong because ain't nobody really checkin' for Joe because how did he come in- what was it, like fourth place in Iowa?
Alvin 37:11
I don't know. But, not good.
Janelle Jolley 37:12
It wasn't top three!
Alvin 37:13
No.
Janelle Jolley 37:14
It's like, okay-
Alvin 37:15
I think Iowa was Bernie and Pete tied, quote unquote, and then Elizabeth Warren, then Joe.
Janelle Jolley 37:20
Yeah, that's-
Alvin 37:20
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 37:21
Yeah. So it's like, Iowa happened and it's just like, "Oh, surprise surprise!" Things are not following the consensus that was building around these, you know, these polls that aren't worth a damn. And then New Hampshire came. My man did it. And then it was Nevada. He Hava Nagila'd on that ass in Nevada, had everybody shook.
Alvin 37:43
He got more votes in Nevada than the next three, I think, right?
Janelle Jolley 37:48
He won by a metric fuck ton.
Alvin 37:51
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 37:51
It was just- and that, you know, that put wind in the sails for people like us who were, you know, you- I mean, you were a formal staff member. I was just like a super volunteer, just always the fuck around. But you, like we were rib- do you remember just that energy? The- but, it's just like-
Alvin 38:06
Oh my god.
Janelle Jolley 38:07
Holy shit.
Alvin 38:08
I would give anything to go back to that moment.
Janelle Jolley 38:11
And it was feeling, it was just like, "We really do have these motherfuckers on skates."
Alvin 38:15
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 38:15
Like, people are seeing with their own eyes. They're thinking for themselves. You know, all the hard work is paying off. Holy shit, we're going into Super Tuesday and we are about to- I mean, South Carolina was coming up and- but I remember, and you tell me if I'm wrong. But I remember going to South Carolina like, "He's probably not going to win, but he'll, you know, he'll come in second-"
Alvin 38:37
Yeah. I actually remember our conversation about South Carolina. Because I remember I went up to you and I was like, "I'm not feeling great about it. I think Bernie's not gonna do well there and it's gonna be bad." But you're like, "He's gonna come in second."
Janelle Jolley 38:52
Yeah, yeah.
Alvin 38:52
"And he's still gonna be-"
Janelle Jolley 38:53
Yeah, cuz it was like the first three contests-
Alvin 38:55
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 38:56
About where it was clo- well, I mean, I- well, they pulled some punches so it wasn't clear, but we all know what happened.
Alvin 39:01
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 39:01
But it's like, the first three contests went to him. South Carolina, maybe he'll come in second. But Super Tuesday, goddamn! And it's about to be on.
Alvin 39:01
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 39:09
The night of the long knives happened after South Carolina where, you know, Barack Obama came down from fucking, you know, his palatial palace. You know, the authoritarian Dems, you know, coalesced around Joe, who everyone had left for dead by that- like, that's what kind of makes me crazy when I think about it. Don't talk to me about democracy. And, I mean, on one hand- mm, say that a different way, Janelle. Don't moralize to me about democracy when you're all too willing to compromise it when it appears that democracy will run up against your interests and the people who pad your pockets being able to continue to, almost in a vampiric way, extract profits out of the healthcare sector or whatever. Because it really- if we run the ta- I think I did that, because if we run the tape back, it really was looking bad for the establishment. Because he, you know, had everyone stayed in at that point, you know, he, you know, they would have split the kind of like, moderate to, you know, dipshit vote, and, you know, he could have convincingly had a plurality going into the convention, where, you know, it still wouldn't have been a given it still wouldn't have been a lock. But, you know, it wouldn't have gone the way it did. But, you know, it was more important for party leaders and by party leaders, I do mean Barack Obama, the party leader, to be, as the standard bearer, to stop this very democratic articulation of what it is that people deserve. Because, you know, "My legacy is at stake here." I get angry all over. And it's not sour grapes, but- and I know it ends up sounding like that. But I end up getting angry all over again, because of this being a moment where people from all walks of life, like, you know, you remember, the Latina grannies that would come in on Thursday to phonebank in Spani- you know what I mean? Like, people taking time off of work, taking time after work, taking time before work, taking time on the weekends. You know, putting together a little bit of money to travel to other states to help ca- like, this was the people's articulation of a platform that was going to materially help their lives. This wasn't, you know, popularity contest because, you know, "I think Banara's hair is slamming, and I don't like, you know, and I don't like the way, you know, Pete wears his, you know, l'il itty bitty suits." You know what I mean? Like, this was a real thing that people saw stakes in. They saw a future in. And it makes me angry because it really- if democracy was what we thought it was. If democracy was still this, kind of, more closely mirrored the parochial idea of democracy, we wouldn't be in this situation where, you know, people are frightened into voting, not even for a candidate, but people are frightened into voting against one candidate, you know, and you know, just throwing their vote to another, when he is not offering a motherfucking thing to people. And it's just, it's kind of wild for me to just sit with that. And that's why I'm so- it just, just this year, on top of the pandemic, of course, is just politically is just so disgusting to me. Like, all- millions of people across this country were standing up and finally feeling competent enough to say, like, "No, you know what? I do deserve health care, it is a human right." Or, "I do not deserve to be penalised for getting an education, you know, I don't deserve to be penalized with six figures of debt for the sin of getting an education." Or, you know, "We do deserve a clean environment, you know, full stop, like, and we don't have to, you know, we don't have to appease, you know, crackers or oil and gas, because I do want my children to, you know, grow up with clean air and clean water." Like, that was...that...in any reasonable society, like...that which is articulated by a majority of people would be reflected in the political arena. But that's not the case here. And it's just like, "What?"
Alvin 43:57
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 43:58
I'm sorry for rambling.
Alvin 43:59
No. And it, you know it- that made me riled up because I- made me relive those moments leading up to Super Tuesday? And it truly was eye opening and disappointing and-
Janelle Jolley 44:13
Yeah.
Alvin 44:14
Yeah, I don't think I will ever in my life get over that.
Janelle Jolley 44:16
I don't think I will ever forgive these hoes for what they did. And I remember exactly where I was- you remember the weekend, right before Super Tuesday, you know, it was all of these...you know, that's when everyone was dropping out and like-
Alvin 44:33
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 44:32
You know, we're hosting canvas- or you were running around trying to make sure everybody's canvas is together. Like, I was hosting canvases, I'm seeing this news come across my phone, and I'm just like, "I, a fool." And I was just like, "Oh, I thought it was going to redound to the benefit of Bernie." I thought enough people had seen the early wins he racked up-
Alvin 44:50
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 44:50
And were going to throw their bows to him because it was absurd at that point to think that so many people were just going to fall in line and vote for Joe. So I thought that was going to read down to Bernie's benefit. And it absolutely- I mean, we know what happened- it absolutely did not.
Alvin 45:03
I think because of the media, the earned media really just focused so much on Joe Biden winning South Carolina.
Janelle Jolley 45:12
And that happened- there was a 30 point, 30 plus points, swing over the weekend.
Alvin 45:18
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 45:18
That changed things in Joe's favor. And it's just like, "Wow!"
Alvin 45:22
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 45:23
Wow. So using that as an example, or speaking of that, when you- having lived through what we saw and experienced in 2020, how do you understand the political arena? And its limitations or possibilities, having lived through what we live through in the primary, 2020? As a leftist.
Alvin 45:52
Yeah. To be honest, I can't say I came out of it feeling heartened. I came out of it thinking, sort of, after Super Tuesday, like "What's the point?" You work so hard. You and I have so many of these people in our community- and you brought up, you know, these Latina aunties and grannies that would come on Thursday, those abuelas that would come and...and I-
Janelle Jolley 46:18
Came straight from work. Shuttled in, tired, and like, "Where's my table? It's time to make calls for tio Bernie, give me the Spanish script. Let's go. We finna call down this list."
Alvin 46:31
Yeah, really! So many people threw down when they had, you know, when they were so busy with work and everything. And it really...it really breaks my heart that it felt like it was all for nothing. And obviously, it wasn't all for nothing. We built a community and we were able to spread the progressive message. And- but it- yeah, I just remember being so disheartened and so disappointed. And just thinking, "I never want to do this again because no matter what I do the establishment, the leadership of the party, what they say is gonna end up being what happens. So what's the point of me putting in all this work?" But that's not true. I don't that's true. And I don't think I've gotten there, to know what exactly is my value in all of this? But I do think there is a need to keep fighting.
Janelle Jolley 47:34
Within the democratic party or outside of it?
Alvin 47:36
I don't know, Janelle. I don't think I've arrived at a conclusion. I don't know. I've also just-
Janelle Jolley 47:45
What was the benefit...no, no, go ahead. Sorry.
Alvin 47:47
I've also just come from the heel of another loss recently, where it was very much us against the establishment. And-
Janelle Jolley 47:56
With John Avalos?
Alvin 47:56
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 47:57
Really? He's, he's an outside player.
Alvin 47:59
Yeah, yeah. The person that he was running against had the backing of Feinstein, the mayor and our governor. And so, yeah. So I'm very still sore from that and I don't know what my take away from all this is? And I really just jumped into that right after Bernie's campaign, too, so I don't think I've had time to really process it all. I don't know.
Janelle Jolley 48:30
I mean, it's okay. I don't- I'm not insisting that you have an answer now because I think a lot of us are in the same place of just like, we lived through the bullshit, we saw it, we have an understanding of why this happens. But like, what do we do now? I think it's completely human and natural to be at a place of like, "Okay...well, then what the fuck do I do?? But I'll press you on that. Like, what do you think might be possible in terms of- not might be possible- what do you desire to be possible and how might we get there? That's a big question.
Uh-huh.
But, so let's break it up into smaller pieces. You know, the Democratic Party is just...
Alvin 49:23
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 49:24
Bullshit. Motherfu- just a bowl of bullshit. Okay, we understand that. Do you think that it's still worth your time, energy and talents, and people who are similar to you, people like me, people, like you know, who we volunteered with or you know, who we worked with when we campaign. Do you think it's still...do you think it's still reasonable for us to work inside the party to change it? And I ask this because- you know Dr. Heyman?
Yes. Love her, yeah.
Okay, I'll be interviewing her soon.
Alvin 50:04
Oh, you're interviewing her soon? Oh!
Janelle Jolley 50:06
Mm-hm, like after Thanksgiving. You know she ain't no bitch. She ain't no soft ass, pussy ass DNC apologist. Like, she don't, mm-mm. But she, it seems to me and I'll ask her more about this when we sit down and talk, like, it seems to me that she still thinks it is a useful expenditure of energy and time to work within the party to push it left. And I don't understand why. When I sit down with her and talk to her, hopefully, I'll learn that. But I look at people like her who are, you know, older than us and who have more experience in terms of, you know, the fights being waged politically within the Democratic Party. I'm like, "Okay, if she still thinks that the Democratic Party is the vehicle, maybe I need to calm down with my impetuousness and my disgust with it?" I don't know. I'm not saying that that's the conclusion I'll come to, but when I look at people like her, I'm like, "I don't know, maybe it is useful?" But, I don't know, I'm just wondering how you think about that? Do you think like, "Motherfuck these guys!" Or like, Imma be a thorn in your side from, you know, and still kind of call myself a Democrat or, you know, identify as a Democrat, or whatever?" Like, how do you think about it?
Alvin 51:23
Wow. I don't...I mean, I still don't know but I'll think out loud with you. And I'll, sort of, let you know where my head's at.
Janelle Jolley 51:32
Yeah, please.
Alvin 51:34
I do think it's, at least on a local level, if the party can't- because I think the local Democratic Party is sometimes wildly different than what the National Democratic Party is standing for. And I think it's easier to enact change on a local level. And sometimes more...it's...you can see the fruits of your results a little more. And that's part of the reason why I moved from a national campaign to a local campaign. I do think folks like Dr. Cho are right in that...it is maybe easier to enact change from within?
Janelle Jolley 52:30
Is it though?
Alvin 52:31
I don't know!
Janelle Jolley 52:32
I mean, it's something I wrestle with. My-
Alvin 52:35
Yeah, I'm wrestling with that too, right now. And-
Janelle Jolley 52:37
Where I'm- where I wrestle with...what I'm, here's what I'm clear on.
Alvin 52:41
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 52:41
What I'm clear on is...now that we know better, in terms of what people need, and being unrelenting and demanding those things and not compromising, there is no turning back. There is no turning back and moderating that position like, "Oh, no. Medicare for all? Who'll want it?" Like your booty boy. That's not an option. We are at the point now, many of us, not all of us, some people are still, fucking, coming along.
Alvin 53:15
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 53:17
I need to develop some patients with them. We what we know is that healthcare is a human right. And if you're going to claim to be a party that believes in science...that can't just be a bromide or a platitude you use as a rhetorical device to insinuate that your opponents are stupid or unlearned. If you believe in science, you then must believe in the body of science that says people going to the doctor more regularly helps to catch you know, issues earlier and leads to better healthier outcomes. You must then believe in the science that says, you know, the disproportionate provision, not access but provision, of medical care to black women is what has them dying in maternity wards at an alarming rate, etc, etc, etc. So, we're not going to start, you know, becoming bitch ass about the things that we know that we need to live dignified, healthy, happy lives. That's not an option. What I wrestle with is, how do we think about the things that we need to do to get there? And I'm extremely torn about the body of... about the idea that, "No, you still have to do that from inside the democratic party." Because from what I've seen- and I haven't been political my entire life the way I am now, obviously. But from my current understanding is that they do they will not do this of their own volition. They do not want to. Like, they do not. So what do you do in the face of that? And I don't know if I'm being too dramatic and extreme in thinking that. But by all intents and purposes, they read pew research, you know, polling, and there's, you know, what is it? Over 70% of people, people of both parties, now, you know, support Medicare for All.
Alvin 55:21
Yeah, that's right.
Janelle Jolley 55:22
They can read these polls, so why the fuck don't we have it? We know why. But I'm saying, you know what I mean? Like, why don't we have it? So what do we have to do to get there? And where I am in my analysis is, there has to- we- it would serve us better, and I could be wrong, but I think it was serve us better to put- to exert pressure, or become organized, because we are very unorganized right now, but become organized and exert pressure on the actors...exert pressure on the systems that exert pressure on our politicians at a federal level. I think you're right that you do have- there- local politics is more responsive. Generally speaking, not always. But we have to exert pressure on the systems that force their hand. And that's where I am in my analysis.
Alvin 56:14
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 56:14
And I don't know that that has to be done fucking with the hoe ass Democratic Party anymore. That's where I am.
Alvin 56:21
Yeah. I think that's fair. And I...I don't think I've come to a conclusion yet. But I-
Janelle Jolley 56:30
You're still thinking through it.
Alvin 56:30
I'm still thinking through it, yeah. But it's...but I'm still new to all this so I think maybe I might be more idealistic right now? But I also think that given our experiences, especially with the 2020 primary, and the 2016 primary, it's hard not to...just say, "Fuck the DNC." Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 57:00
Yeah. And now like, Heyman wants me to- she wants me to run for California ADEM-
Alvin 57:05
A? Oh!
Janelle Jolley 57:06
I was like, "Really? Wow!"
Alvin 57:07
Janelle, you should!
Janelle Jolley 57:08
I registered and-
Alvin 57:10
You did? Okay. I was-
Janelle Jolley 57:11
Whatever. Cuz she's my boss, I do whatever the fuck she tells me to do. But it's just like, really? Like, how do you- how, after this year, do you even want to deal with these hoes?
Alvin 57:20
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 57:21
Because I don't- I- there's- they are the elite...or the players, you know, in the party, I hold them beneath contempt.
Alvin 57:32
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 57:33
So it's just like, why do you still- it's like- cuz in my mind, and again, I'm being dramatic. But in my mind, I'm just like, "This is an abusive boyfriend, girl!" And just like Fantasia say, "If you don't want me, then don't talk to me. Go ahead and free yourself!" Like, you don't give a fuck about people like me and the things that I am unapologetic in demanding. So like, do we even need to- can we part ways? So, I don't know, I'm still...I'm still thinking through that.
Alvin 58:01
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 58:02
I'm sure they'll have a very reasonable way for me to think about it. But that's where I am-
Alvin 58:08
And she's been in this a long time. I feel like she's- I'm actually very interested in hearing your conversation with her.
Janelle Jolley 58:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure there's a level of wisdom that I don't have because I haven't lived as long as she has and had the experience-
Alvin 58:17
But you also have experiences that she doesn't have, and I think your experience is valid. And I'm sort of in between. I don't know what's next for me. But yeah.
Janelle Jolley 58:33
Do you- and, again, tell me if I'm being too romantic about this. But I am- because I said this to Liz when we were talking. Like, I don't know the exact formation of things that- I don't know the exact form that things will take to get us things like, you know, Medicare For All, Green New Deal, da, da, da. I don't know the exact form or the exact impetus, but I do know what it will look like, and it will look like the Sanders primary campaign. You understand what I'm saying? Like, it would have to be- it will be- and I don't know when, I don't know how, I don't know. But I can see it in the distance because I saw it with my own eyes. You understand what I'm saying?
Alvin 59:22
Yeah!
Janelle Jolley 59:22
I saw it, I smelled it, I touched it, I tasted it. I did not imagine it. But it will, whatever that thing is, it will be a movement wherein it's widespread, like people from all walks of life, who have a clear and unambiguous understanding of the stakes and what they stand to benefit and them, you know, sacrificing their time, their talent, their energy, you know, etc. and working together in lockstep. Like, that's not to say that we, you know, we don't have our disagreements or, you know, that I fucking just loved everybody that I met on the campaign. But we all are very clear and are in lockstep with this thing. So, I do know the contours of it and it will look like the Sanders primary campaign. I just don't know what that...whether they- is it just like a coordinated and, you know, a surgically pinpointed, you know, strike where, you know, we we all, you know, those of us in the sectors that, you know, are striking, you know, are supported by the rest of us, you know, giving our money every month to support the strikers, as they, you know, as they hold out against- or, you know, whatever. I don't know, but I do know that the general contours of it will look like the Sanders campaign. And that's what keeps me sane. It's just that like, I didn't imagine this, this is not a fever dream. I didn't- like, this was not a daydream, you know? I've lived and breathed this for several months, along with millions of other people. So like, it was concrete. I touched, I felt it, I lived it.
Alvin 1:01:06
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:01:06
And because I lived it, I know that it can happen again. But, so, I mean, that's the thing that...that's the thing that like-
Alvin 1:01:13
But isn't that beautiful that it was- that we've experienced what that could look like and it's tangible and it can happen? And I think that's it's amazing that we got to be a part of that.
Janelle Jolley 1:01:25
Yeah, that's right. And I'm hope- and I missed the thing yesterday. There was like a Bernie super volunteers reunion thing-
Alvin 1:01:32
Oh, was there?
Janelle Jolley 1:01:33
Yeah, yeah. And I RSVP'd for but I got caught up doing something, so I missed it. And Nina Turner was speaking.
Alvin 1:01:39
Oh!
Janelle Jolley 1:01:39
I love her. And she's on my list of people to talk to. I don't know how that's gonna happen, but-
Alvin 1:01:43
Yeah. You'll talk to her.
Janelle Jolley 1:01:46
That's right. I'm gonna ring a bell, light a candle, chant, pray, fall to the ground. Anyway, I'm- I don't know this to be true, but I get the suspicion, or I have an inkling that they're trying to kind of reconstitute the network of volunteers toward being able to harness some mass popular political action. Because that was the secret sauce, you know what I mean? Like, the reason he was such a threat is because he had a broad base of support. And when you have a...when you have your hooks into that many people across the country who are agitating for the improvement of the material conditions of their lives, like that's fucking scary to the establishment. Because you can- that does lend itself to you being able to organize, you know, more efficiently, you know, a strike or, you know, protests or, you know, or whatever. But, to organize, like, you have to have people. So that was the secret sauce. So I think if they're able- and it's not going to be easy because, you know, we're all fuckin, you know, dejected, we're in a pandemic, we're scared, we're, you know- it's not easy to sit down and be in a room with people, you know what I mean? So it's not going to be easy, but I get the sense that they're trying to do that so that that level of popular support can be exerted, again on the political system? And, I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing how that takes shape. I'll not, you know, I'll fucking attend the next meeting.
Alvin 1:03:24
I hope it happens because there's so much untapped, sort of, power there. And I think that you're right, that was, sort of like, the Sanders' campaign, sort of, secret weapon was just all those people that have the same vision that we all do. And so it's, I think it's beautiful. And I hope it doesn't go-
Janelle Jolley 1:03:45
Would you be- you know, again, we're imagining right now.
Alvin 1:03:49
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:03:49
We're just generating what this might look like. Would you be able to be a part of it? Like, to throw your hat in the ring to...
Alvin 1:04:00
I would love to if the opportunity comes.
Janelle Jolley 1:04:02
Sure.
Alvin 1:04:02
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:04:03
What what shape do you think it might take? Or, you don't know?
Alvin 1:04:07
I don't know.
Janelle Jolley 1:04:07
You can't even see that far.
Alvin 1:04:08
Yeah. Sorry, I feel like a lot of my responses to you lately are, "I don't know," but-
Janelle Jolley 1:04:12
No, no! Of course.
Alvin 1:04:15
These are all things-
Janelle Jolley 1:04:16
But, none of us know.
Alvin 1:04:16
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:04:17
Are you hopeful, though, that...
Alvin 1:04:20
I think I'm a hopeful person. And I do think it will...the dream, if you will, will be realized in my lifetime, in our lifetimes. I do hope so. And I do think we are, even if slowly, we are moving left.
Janelle Jolley 1:04:44
Sure.
Alvin 1:04:46
Actually, I don't know about that. Maybe I take that back. But I just look at some of the younger volunteers at our campaign? Because even on the Bernie campaign I remember there were high schoolers that were coming in. They're like, "Oh, this is, uh, this is my winter break."
Janelle Jolley 1:05:07
Yep. Yep.
Alvin 1:05:08
"And I am," instead of, you know, traveling, and back then you could still travel. They were like, "No, I decided- I told my parents I didn't want to do anything. I just wanted to come to the office every day." So I remember there were students that were coming in. High school junior, senior, students who, instead of doing anything fun for winter break, they came in every day to phone bank and everyday to help our-
Janelle Jolley 1:05:27
Well, just to help out. Like, even if there wasn't anything to do, I remember young people coming like, "Okay, if there's nothing for me, I'll just sweep the floor."
Alvin 1:05:35
Yes! Nothing was too- no tasks were too small for them. And that gives me a lot of hope. I just think, I guess, like I told you earlier, I was definitely not aware in high school, not even in college. It wasn't until I after I graduated. So that makes me know that we are in good hands. That the future generation, you know- and young people voted for Bernie!
Janelle Jolley 1:06:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quite a bit.
Alvin 1:06:01
And I know that the age group, like 18, to late 20s, it was heavily for Bernie and that makes me hopeful. And that makes me think that better things are ahead.
Janelle Jolley 1:06:15
How much time do I have? How much more time do I have?
Alvin 1:06:17
Oh, my boy is angrily texting me. I have to go to. It's 5:47.
Janelle Jolley 1:06:21
Oh, fuck! One last question.
Alvin 1:06:22
Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:06:23
Do you- this is inside baseball and if you're not allowed to say, that's fine.
Alvin 1:06:26
Okay.
Janelle Jolley 1:06:26
But do you- are you...are you a little angry that the campaign didn't, like- at the point where, you know, it was clearn what was happening, what the game was in the primary. Were you a little angry that he didn't just set out at the moment where it was just like, "Oh, they're trying to fuck me again," to run independently or third party? Were you a little angry at the campaign or the people in charge of the campaign? Or did you expect that to happen? Like, were you just like, "We can't just let this go."
Alvin 1:06:58
I think the campaign ran a very traditional campaign and really heavily invested in the early states and hoped for momentum. And I think that's what a lot of the other campaigns did, too.
Janelle Jolley 1:07:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was the sound strategy.
Alvin 1:07:13
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:07:13
I could not have foreseen what happened with, you know-
Alvin 1:07:15
Yeah. I think it was the first time in US politics where, in a competitive primary, where the candidate who won the first three races did not clinch the nomination. So I think, I really think that it was something that blindsided a lot of- even though in retrospect, it's like, "Oh, we should have all seen it because there's this sort of thing happened in 2016 and it's definitely happened again in 2020." But I think, even with myself, I had such a...I just had...I just thought we were gonna win. I felt like we were on a good momentum, and the right trajectory. And so I don't really fault the campaign for maybe not being prepared for that? Because who knew this was all gonna happen-
Janelle Jolley 1:07:15
At that point, after-
Alvin 1:08:08
Oh, after!
Janelle Jolley 1:08:08
When things started, do you harbor a little bit of like, "Uhh, come on, man." Like, to quote Joe Biden, like, "Ah, come on, just break away." Like, you can't let this apparatus, this wide swath of people, you know, breaking off on your own, you know, fuck the loyalty oath or whatever the fuck. Like, the only way is keeping this intact as a third party run to have any leverage on the party and taking votes away?
Alvin 1:08:41
I don't because Bernie had consistently, sort of, promised that he would not do that. Had I wished he'd done that? Maybe, I don't...but I think he also has received so much hate and so much unfair criticism during 2016 when he when he stayed in their primary, even though they said that there's no way you can overcome, sort of, Hillary's delegates at that point. And so I think that takes a toll on you.
Janelle Jolley 1:09:18
Sure.
Alvin 1:09:18
As like a late 70 year old man, you're just getting so much hate from the party and everything. So, I do think it was a difficult decision. I know a lot of people wanted it. Yeah. So I don't fault Bernie or the campaign for not doing it, but I think it could have been effective if we had gone that route.
Janelle Jolley 1:09:42
Yea, yeah.
Alvin 1:09:43
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:09:44
Okay. Well, I'll wrap up so your friend isn't angry with you. But I think I'm going to press you to start thinking-
Alvin 1:09:54
Oh, please, yes.
Janelle Jolley 1:09:56
About, like, what it will look like. Cuz I want- I think we are, all of us, including ?, I think we're all deeply lacking...engaging our political imagination to presuppose the future we want to live in?
Alvin 1:10:10
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:10:10
I know that it's very overwhelming. Like, everything sucks right now. Just, goddamn. Just, oof. But I'm going to press you on that to start thinking about it and what that could look like. And I'm sure I will have you back on to discuss what you're thinking about.
Alvin 1:10:22
Oh, I would love to be back. Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:10:23
It's not that you're going to have a clear like, "Here's a document for how to do-" not like that. But just like, now that we're here, how do we as a- I don't know if you consider yourself a progressive or leftist. But, now that we're here, how do we...think about and organize things to go in the direction that we know things need to go? In a life-giving direction. This is not to say that, you know, again, you're going to have the answer.
Alvin 1:10:56
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:10:57
But I think it's critically important that we start engaging these questions and the possible answers because that's what's going to move us through.
Alvin 1:11:07
I agree. Yeah. Homework. You know what, and homework for me to do in Hawaii cuz I literally have no plans for the next few weeks there. I was gonna be laying on-
Janelle Jolley 1:11:16
You ain't got nobody lined up in Hawaii?
Alvin 1:11:17
No, nobody! I'm trying to be safe.
Janelle Jolley 1:11:21
Well enjoy your time. I'm way too chickenshit to get on a plane right now, but-
Alvin 1:11:24
I'm actually really nervous tomorrow, but I got tested twice this week.
Janelle Jolley 1:11:28
Okay, good.
Alvin 1:11:29
And I-
Janelle Jolley 1:11:30
I want to see you when you get back.
Alvin 1:11:32
Yes.
Janelle Jolley 1:11:32
We'll get you tested.
Alvin 1:11:33
I'll quarantine myself and get tested when I'm back.
Janelle Jolley 1:11:35
But I do want to have you back on to discuss-
Alvin 1:11:37
Yes.
Janelle Jolley 1:11:38
What it is that you imagine?
Alvin 1:11:39
Okay. Oh, I love this topic. Okay. Yeah. This is so fun and I feel so honored to be part of this.
Janelle Jolley 1:11:47
Thank you for taking time. Thank you for ,you know, coming over here and entertaining your very-
Alvin 1:11:51
Thank you for not judging me.
Janelle Jolley 1:11:53
No, I'm not judging! What are you talking about? I would never judge you. But thank you Alvin for coming and sharing your time, your list of sexual problematics-
Alvin 1:12:04
Oh my god.
Janelle Jolley 1:12:05
And we hope to have you back to see how- where you are after getting to think through some more about what will be and how we will get there because we already in it.
Alvin 1:12:21
Yes. Yes.
Janelle Jolley 1:12:22
It's me and you.
Alvin 1:12:23
Yeah.
Janelle Jolley 1:12:24
And millions of other people. We gonna figure it out.
Alvin 1:12:27
Yeah. Election was just recent, we have- we need to-
Janelle Jolley 1:12:30
We need to come back from this shit show.
Alvin 1:12:32
Yeah. And think about the future and what's next.
Janelle Jolley 1:12:35
That's correct. Because we are not going back.
Alvin 1:12:37
No. No, no, no. Absolutely not.
Janelle Jolley 1:12:39
We are not going back. Cuz that was the ghetto and we not doing that. We don't live there no more. Okay, alright. Have a good evening. Please be safe. Tell your friend I said, "Hey," and I want to talk to him soon, too.
Alvin 1:12:52
Okay. Alirght.
Janelle Jolley 1:12:54
Bye!
Alvin 1:12:54
Bye!
Janelle Jolley 1:13:00
So, that was Alvin, who will be back after having done his homework. And I am your host Janelle on What's Left To Do. Don't miss an episode. Now that I think I've straightened out RSS link, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. You know, smash that like button or, you know, whatever the kids are saying now. Okay, see you next week.
